Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

[Mark42]

I like the Stitch and Glue method of building a boat hull. The Glen-L site has 17 footers for off shore fishing. My plans for the next boat project fall into two catagories:<br /><br />1) But a salvage boat with good hull, gut it and build everything new. <br /><br />Or<br /><br />2) Build a stitch and glue boat. <br /><br /><br />The stitch and glue will cost a few thousand more due to the materials cost of the hull vs a nearly free hull from salvage.<br /><br />Was wondering if anyone here know of stitch and glue boats that are in use and how well they are holding up. Im thinking of 17 to 19 footers.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Mark.

 

[fishingdan]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

Hi Mark,<br /><br />I have built a couple of stitch and glue boats. They are a great project and I actually like doing that over restoring older boats. <br /><br />My last one is a 16' Glen-L center console design called the Console Skiff. I built it with the optional bulwarks (additional side panel). It has held up exceptionally well after two hard seasons of use. These boats hold up really well and, as long as you seal any holes you make, all of the wood is epoxy encapsulated. I have beat the living snot out of my boat along the New England coast as well as local freshwater lakes. The thing that I have learned is that the boat can take a lot more abuse than I can. <br /><br />As you will read, the key to success is to use quality materials. <br /><br />For example, given the quality and cost of domestic exterior or marine plywood, I would only recommend BS1088 Meranti plywood. It is truly void free, bends easily, has many equal plys of quality veneers and costs less than $5 more per sheet than the domestic plys. <br /><br />Use good epoxy like West System, System Three, MAS, Raka, or some private label (the epoxy from www.boatplans-online.com is excellent).<br /><br />Finish with good 2 part Linear Poly Urethan paint like Interlux Perfection, Awlgrip or System Three (a water hosted product). All of these can be easily applied with a roller and brush (aka "roll and tip") and are extremely durable. You can expect to get 3 to 7 years out of these. <br /><br />Here is a link to a letter I wrote to Glen-L and a few pictures of my boat:<br /> http://www.glen-l.com/picboards/picboard11/pic601a.html <br /><br />While I like the Glen-L design, my next build will be a design from www.boatplans-online.com .<br /><br />Good luck with your decision.

 

[Terry Olson]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

I was looking at building the Glen-l "Dragonfly" before buying my current boat. My dad built a chris-craft style inboard ski boat using plans form glen-l, but I don't recall the model offhand. <br /><br />The Dragonfly is about the size I had in mind but it's a new model and I couldn't find anyone who has built one or photos of a finished example. <br /><br />I've been checking back on the glen-l forum for a couple of years and they've been selling stitch and glue plans for many years. It's apparent that it's a great way to home-build a boat even for the inexperienced.

 

[surlyjoe]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

so "stitch and glue" means traditionl plywood construction? <br /><br />does anyone build the little cold mold's like the yellow jacket anymore?

 

[Johnshan1]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

Heres some pics of my OB15 from www.bateau2.com very seaworthy boat for its size I take it out on the coast of maine for stripers. Flys with the 40 hp on it, 35 mph in a heartbeat, could problably see 40 if you played with the prop.<br /><br />

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[DJ]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

Mark42,<br /><br />Thanks to Johnshan for sharing his AWESOME project.

 

[G DANE]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

And thanks to fishingdan. Both of you did an awesome job, adding your personal design and building beautifull boats. Indeed two real craftsmen. How do you get a title for a new homebuild boat, Dan ? Just quriousity, boats dont have titles over here.

 

[alden135]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

Johnshan1<br /><br />Do you know where Bustins I. is?

 

[BillP]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

Mark42,<br />Stitch n glues were originally designed to reduce construction time and weight by eliminating frames, structure, etc. They weren't heavy duty boats. Later they started adding frames and structure to make the boats more durable. So you can always build a SNG as strong as any other boat, all it takes is labor and $$$. Wood is still the most cost effective way to get light weight and strength...but it is still a wood boat. You need to treat it differently on the beach, etc compared to an all glass hull. Pin hole sized fractures that let water in are not forgiving and will kill the boat. For my time and money reworking a glass boat wins over building a wood boat...except for small rowboats, dinks or special designs I can't find in glass.

 

[Johnshan1]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

BillP,<br /><br />In this day and age of epoxy not polyester fiberglass rot is a non issue if the boat is built right.<br /><br />That means: 2-3 coats of epoxy over the wood. My hull has 3 layers of fiberglass biaxial cloth on the keel, the whole hull has biaxial cloth over it, under that is 2 layers of epoxy coating. This will not rot. If you used polyester fiberglass, it problably would. Again, the use of modern epoxys eliminates the rot issue of using a wood core, again if built correctly using the proper layers of epoxy. <br /><br />Sounds like a lot of epoxy to build a 15 footer right? I used 8 gallons for the entire boat.<br /><br />The problem is people hear wood and they assume it will rot. Its not a wood boat, its a composite boat with a wood core- that core does not see the light of day its sealed and unless you hit something hard enough to break the layers of glass it never is a problem. Biaxial cloth is very very tough stuff. Its often said that a stich and glue is strogner then a standard fiberglass built hull, think about it, theres a wood core there vs just some thick glass that could be broken with a hammer on a trailer.<br /><br />Lose the wooden boat thoughts its of past eras

 

[Johnshan1]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

Alden, <br /><br />im not sure where Bustins Island is, I head out of the saco river, portland harbor and drop into the kennebec sometimes. <br /><br />-John

 

[alden135]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

Johnshan1,<br /><br />Bustins is out of the Harraseeket R.(S. Freeport). I'm not far at all from Portrland. I have family in your area.<br />Nice boat BTW.

 

[BillP]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

Originally posted by Johnshan1:<br /> BillP,<br /><br />In this day and age of epoxy not polyester fiberglass rot is a non issue if the boat is built right.<br /><br />That means: 2-3 coats of epoxy over the wood. My hull has 3 layers of fiberglass biaxial cloth on the keel, the whole hull has biaxial cloth over it, under that is 2 layers of epoxy coating. This will not rot. If you used polyester fiberglass, it problably would. Again, the use of modern epoxys eliminates the rot issue of using a wood core, again if built correctly using the proper layers of epoxy. <br /><br />Sounds like a lot of epoxy to build a 15 footer right? I used 8 gallons for the entire boat.<br /><br />The problem is people hear wood and they assume it will rot. Its not a wood boat, its a composite boat with a wood core- that core does not see the light of day its sealed and unless you hit something hard enough to break the layers of glass it never is a problem. Biaxial cloth is very very tough stuff. Its often said that a stich and glue is strogner then a standard fiberglass built hull, think about it, theres a wood core there vs just some thick glass that could be broken with a hammer on a trailer.<br /><br />Lose the wooden boat thoughts its of past eras

I appreciate your opinion but this isn't about "wooden boat thoughts of the past". This "new" composite construction has been around since the early 60s and the downfalls are well known. If you can keep the wood core dry everything will be fine...but don't think you can abuse a modern composite like a 100% glass hull. Any and all glass can be fractured or worn away from abrasion. I once ran over a partially submerged piling that put a 2'long gash/tear in a 1/4" exterior glass skin with 1/2" plywood core glassed in with approx 3/16" thick glass. The core got wet by the time I made it back to the ramp. When fully glassed wood gets wet it won't dry out. I had to remove a full 4'x8' section to get all the wet wood out. This was a major operation as the floor and stringers also had to be removed. Had this been a 100% glass hull it would have been a minor patch job from the exterior. There are plenty of stories like this with composites if you frequent boatyards. It just takes more care to keep the wood core from getting wet than keeping a glass hull.<br /><br />8 gals doesn't sound like a lot to me for a 15' skiff. I used 13 gals of epoxy to rebuild an old 17' fiberglass boat...transom, floors, stringers.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

The discussion between Bill and Johnshan1 is interesting. I read of a material to use in S&G boat building in place of the plywood. It was thinner, more like plastic sheeting, looked like house wrap. I think that stuff was expensive. If I find the link I'll post it. Using that product will produce an all fiberglass hull. No wood. But if you are creative, I'm sure there are other materials that can be used in place of wood to make the basic hull shape, then build up the layers of glass until the desired thickness.

 

[2manyboats]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

Dynamite Payson Has some good designs for smaller boats in his book "Building the Instant Boats". I built his "Payson's Pirogue", a 13' double chine pirogue (or canoe). It was just what I wanted: strong and lightweight for poling and paddling the marshes and tidal flats.

 

[Johnshan1]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

Well, everyone has their own feelings. I dont mind having the wood core in there, one guy hit a stump with his bateau boat, it ripped the stump right out of the lake and he brought it home with him, he cut a section out of the bottom of the boat and grafted it back together. I like the wood core myself.<br /><br />On a side note- what would you guys be willing to pay for the boat I posted pictures of? Sorry to steal the thread I am just curious, would like to build a bigger boat in the near future.<br /><br />-John

 

[fishingdan]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

G Dane: Thanks for the compliment. Registering the boat is easy. In MA, there are three steps:<br /><br />- Get a hull inspection from the MA Environmental Police. This is not a safety inspection. It is an inspection to properly describe the boat. For example, the boat is a 16' open boat with a center console. The result is a certificate of origin.<br /><br />- Pay taxes on materials used to build the boat. Keep receipts for everything (or most everything...) and bring it to the dept of revenue. They will then tally up your sales tax. You will pay sales tax on any material that you have not already paid MA sales tax on. For example, my plywood was purchased in Maine and delivered to my house. I had to pay MA sales tax on this. <br /><br />- Take your tax receipt and your certificate of origin to the Environmental Police and register the boat. <br /><br />The whole process took less than 2 hours total (split over two days since the inspection schedule doesn't always coincide with the office hours).

 

[fishingdan]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

People typically polarize around the wood topic. <br /><br />I am with John and don't think it is a major concern if the boat is built per the designers instructions and one uses common sense when cutting/drilling holes in the boat to mount accessories. <br /><br />I have beached my boat repeatedly on sand and pebble shore lines. I have also repeatedly banged my trailer and found a few unexpected submerged rocks. There are scuff marks on the paint (S3's 2-part lpu paint is extremely tough), but I haven't breached the glass. If it did, the repair would be easy, but the exposed wood would need to dry. <br /><br />Many of the modern plywood cored boat plans specify 1/4" marine plywood for the hull core. The strength of the hull comes from the composite structure of carefully designed fiberglass laminations (including biaxial glass), plywood core for the hull, properly located stringers/frames and epoxy to bond it together. When complete, the keel, chines and the hull overall is thicker than you think after starting with 1/4" maring ply. The keel on my boat has a minimum of 7 layers of structure glass laminated together. The plans from www.boatplans-online (aka Bateau) have a minimum of 9. <br /><br />Foam cores are an alternative. At www.boatplans-online, the designer will update the plans for any of his boats to use a foam core if the builder commits to buying all of the material from him. Unless one is experienced at vacuum-bagging, the resulting hull will be heavier than a plywood cored hull since more structural glass need to be used with the foam. <br /><br />Everyone needs to make choices they are comfortable with. I wouldn't shy away the use of wood for fear of rot.

 

[Mark42]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

1/4" ply is so thin that I would think it is easy to totally saturate it with a dilute epoxy or resin before laying up glass. Any breach of the glass layers would just expose a plastic saturated plywood product. <br /><br />Regular ply might have to be substituted for marine ply to get good penetration and saturation. Is this a case where crappy wood is better?<br /><br />Any thoughts on that idea?

 

[fishingdan]

Re: Know of any Stitch and Glue boats?

1/4" BS1088 Marine Meranti plywood is what the designer recommends. After using both "crappy" ply and meranti, I would never use the crappy stuff again. The meranti has absolutely no voids if it is from a reputable manufacturer. It also has 5 or 7 equal plys of quality wood veneer. There is no contest when you compare it to typical 1/4" exterior or common exterior Luan available at HD and Lowes. The meranti bends easily/ consistantly, is extremely stable and will not check (not an issue under glass), has a very fair surface (A surface on both sides) and holds epoxy extremely well. <br /><br />I don't know for sure, but I would think that it would be tough to saturate much beyond the surface veneer with epoxy. At least I haven't seen it go deeper than that in the pieces that I have cut.