Leak under bow decking

[lakeorbay]

I have a severe leak on the bow of my '87 Lund. I've done some preliminary work, but haven't dug in real deep yet. I do know, I need to get under the deck of my bow. The boat is aluminum and has three chambers in the bow. The 1st chamber (I guess where battaries go) has a flat riveted plate, so I couldn't get beneath that one. The 2nd chamber is storage, but it has some sort of bottom that can't be removed without removing the deck. The 3rd chamber, is the livewell. It's riveted in. On either side of it, is foam filled. I've never installed a livewell, so I don't know how to deconstruct one. It has over flows on both sides, so I guess I would have to remove the foam on both sides to remove the plumbing. Not sure how to get the hoses apart when I get to that.

When I get that done, then I will see how bad the damage is. You can't tell a thing from the outside, but it leaks like a clogged rain gutter.

I will get into the BEST fix later. Right now I just want to know how to get to it and how to deconstruct my livewell.

BTW I took out as many screws from the deck as possible, nowI need to remove all of the the bolts and RUSTED nuts from underneath. Quite a few of them.

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Well I got the deck up and off the bow. I now have full access to the chambers below. The 2nd chamber looks like my best bet at getting to the bottom. Next time, I will drill out the rivets. Maybe THEN I can expose the leak.

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Well, i did more work and still have not found the source of the leak. I exposed the section where most of the leak APPEAR to be coming from. The seam looks good.

This is the bow w/ the deck removed

The water pours out below this middle section that I exposed

close up of the seam below/no visible damage

I guess I have to get under the plate at the bottom of the hole. The rivets go all the way through the hull. I'm nervous about drilling these out, but I guess it has to be done.

If I don't find the leak in the front section, next I have to get under my livewell. Not looking forward to that. Why mess with a perfectly good livewell?

Here is the leak....I mean waterfall below

Disgusting! HELP!!! should I abandon ship?

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Wow, I'm surprised you haven't received some responses by now.

Looks like you need to keep removing things until you find the source of the leak. In my Crestliner it would be a major undertaking to get to the bow's underside as I'd have to tear up 1/2 the interior (which I did during rebuilt). For the thru-hull rivets, I'd go back with bucked rivets since this is going to be in an inaccessible area. They have blind pop rivets which are water tight or you could use SS truss head screws/nuts with a dab of 3M 5200, if it's only a few rivets you are removing, they might be an option.

If they filled the sides of the livewell with expanding foam it's going to be a PITA to get it out as it's essentially glued into the hull, need to hack the foam out and get out of the gaps and cracks. It looks like they filled the plumbing area with foam, so that's going to be fun getting the foam out around the hoses.

Good luck and keep us posted

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Thanks for the reply fishrdan. I'm pretty bummed out. The deeper I go, the more committed I am. I can't tear the boat apart and then put it back together at no cost. Even if I did, I would have to disclose that it has a severe leak for re-sell. So that means, she's a keeper, but without some input, I have no idea what kind of cost I'm looking at to make this boat safe enough to put my family in.

When I find the leak, I want to make it and the rest of the hull bullet proof! I will research bullet proof methods after I find that leak.

 

[APPALOOSA2]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Its hard to tell from your pics , pretty small but where exactly is the water coming out through. Is it the rivets ? Is it coming out the of the side of the keel ?

You may just get away with Gluvit but I would like to see bigger pics of the area.

Did the hull hit something ?

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Leak under bow decking

APPALOOSA2, Thanks for digging this thread up from the long forgotten. The history of this boat is unclear because to previous owner was dishonest with me. He told me, as far as he knows, the boat doesn't leak. Yeah right! I suspect the damage may be from pounding waves in the San Francisco Bay. I also believe it sat for some time with saltwater IN the boat but, just below the deck.

So anyway, The leak is not from the rivets, it's pouring out from the sides of the keel cap. From the inside of the boat, I got to the area where the water is pouring out, but I don't see any obvious damage. I guess I have to tear more of the deck out. Unfortunately, the next section to tear out is under my livewell. If time permits, that's going to happen this Saturday. If I'm going to go that far, I might as well re-do the whole boat. I guess this is an official restore.

Since I have your attention, if I haven't lost you already, after I get the entire deck remove, I have two choices.
1) Take it to a welder/boat repairman and just have the problem fixed.
2) Get a hull inspection to find out if there is more damage than I find or if it's even worth fixing.
So, my Q is, should I just skip the inspection and take it straight to a repair man.
Here's the boat. If I fix the leak there is potential there.

Here's a shot of the leak....er....I mean water fall.

Here's the area just above where the water is pouring out. I was expecting to see a huge hole.

....and here's a portion of the livewell w/foam encased plumbing. Lovely!

Thanks for your interest.

 

[APPALOOSA2]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Don't take it to a welder ! There is a rubber gasket between that keel cap and the 2 pieces that come down to form the v in the hull. You will melt it and have a worse leak.

This could be from grounding the boat.

I only suspect that because of the location.

You will need to get to the inside and see if any damage is there. If there is no damage you will need to tighten the rivets. Someone on the outside will hit the rivet with a hammer and someone inside with a metal block on the rivet. This will tighten it up.

Then check to see if you still have a water leak, retighten again if needed.
Then clean the whole area real well and put some GLUVIT on it and you will never have a problem again.

Nice boat its well worth it.

 

[halas]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Appaloosa is right.
I would also get some paint remover and clean the outside of the leaking area completely. A pressure washer would be ideal to do it quickly: just apply the paint removing paste to the area of leak. Let it work for 15 min.and blast with water. This will expose the outside of the trouble spot and reveal any kind of filler that might have been used to improperly repair a hole or crack. (You can use wire brush if no pressure washer is available.)

 

[APPALOOSA2]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Lake I just enlarged your pictures and is that weld on the side of the keel ?

If that is weld on the keel ,thats why it's leaking. The heat melted the rubber gasket. Welding aluminum is very tricky with a boat. The aluminum is hardened on a boat and will stress the aluminum sometimes even crack it.

Also just google "GLUVIT" and you should see it forsale at many places plus the companies home page.

When you do that area with Gluvit lower your trailer so the bow is down some so it will seap into that seam. You will apply it from the inside.

Don't use epoxy use Gluvit because it will flex as your hull does and expand as the hull does in cold and contract with it when warm. Epoxy will not and crack and break off.

Hell just trailer that thing over here to western NY and I'll help you ! LOL

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Appaloosa, if I had the time and money, I'd been in NY next week!I always wanted to visit NY. Anyway, sorry it took so long to get back to you, I was out fishing in the rain for 12 hours today.

I tried to add another pic of the seam, but I was not allowed. You know, I think that is a weld, come to think of it. The funny thing is, is that I think I'm the first one to go below deck on this boat. When I removed the deck, all of the nuts on the underside of the deck were rusted like they were from the beginning of time. At least half of them broke off, instead of spun off.

halas, thanks for your tip as well. That will be one of my next moves. This is some valuable information I'm getting.

Has anyone seen a leak this bad?

I appreciate the encouragement. It beats the reaction I got from my neighbor in dry storage. After a conversation about my boat he walked away shaking his head like he was looking at a mortally wounded man. Funny now, but not at the moment.

I'm going to go deeper this weekend, so I'll have more info and pics. Thanks again.

 

[barryll]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Has anyone seen a leak this bad?

I appreciate the encouragement. It beats the reaction I got from my neighbor in dry storage. After a conversation about my boat he walked away shaking his head like he was looking at a mortally wounded man. Funny now, but not at the moment.

I'm going to go deeper this weekend, so I'll have more info and pics. Thanks again.

Read these links first and you'll know the "detail" of the same ( but different boat ) bow leak problem I'm having. Although I'm really impressed with your waterfall, mine drips.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=300173

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=301640


Progress so far:

Drilled a 3/4 hole in the inside cap covering the keel (my access is about half way in front of the gas tank). Lower the trailer jack all the way down, mixed up half a can of Gluvit and poured it in. Took the remainder of the Gluvit (its thick so it sticks to the side of the mixing cup) and coated the outside of screws I replaced/repaired and started a coat on the exposed keel plate (from wear.

Drilled out all blind rivet that I could get to and replaced with 3/16 Truss Head SS 18-8 machine screws, 4200 fast cure sealant, washer, nylock. Also drilled out 4 other OEM rivets and did the same. (None of this is related to the bow leak.)

3/4 drilled access hole for pouring in Gluvit.

Where my keel plate leaks.

Replaced rivets with Truss Head Screws, 4200 sealent, Gluvit.

I'm going to let it cure for 4 or 5 days and go dip it in the lake (on the trailer) to see if it worked.

To access the same area your talking about is also a pain, under the front deck, under the livewell, then under and another floor plate. Let you know what happens.

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Hey baryll, thanks. I always appreciate a reply. Yours is excellant. It gives me hope. My boat was in dry storage, but I just got my her home and in the garage, so now I can work on it whenever I can chisel out some time. I did find some today.

I tried to dig some foam out from around the livewell. I realized I need a different tool for that project, something more like a sharp scoop. So, I abandoned that and moved on to what I thought I could get done.

I made an attempt to take the consoles out. Well....I can see that's going to take some time. It makes me wonder how they got it together. There are nuts and bolts in places that can hardly be reached. If taking it apart is tough, I'm going to be doing a lot of cussin' and throwing stuff when it goes back together.

I'll be back at it tomorrow. Keep me posted on yours and I'll keep you posted on mine.

 

[barryll]

Re: Leak under bow decking

I made an attempt to take the consoles out. Well....I can see that's going to take some time. It makes me wonder how they got it together. There are nuts and bolts in places that can hardly be reached. If taking it apart is tough, I'm going to be doing a lot of cussin' and throwing stuff when it goes back together.

I'll be back at it tomorrow. Keep me posted on yours and I'll keep you posted on mine.

BTDTBTTS (been there, done that, bought the T-shirt) Trust me, it's all worth it when your sittin on the big pond sipping your beverage of choice Keep you posted.

Console before

During

Console after - I had to make room for FishTV, didn't I.

Now, if I could only get rid of all that nasty carpet. Next winter maybe, it's to close to fishing season for now.

 

[lakeorbay]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Man, the Q's never stop! Okay, looking at your post got me thinking. Something tells me the answer to this question's going to cost me more money. Why two sonars? When you replace your carpet, are you going with new carpet or vinyl?

I was trying to leave as much of my boat the way it was as possible because I was thinking this might just be a stepping stone boat. Since I have to remove pretty much everything, I have an opportunity to replace the carpet. I was on the floor of the boat working and it smells pretty bad and maybe it's just in my head, but it makes my skin itch. So, it looks like I'll be replacing it. I need to decide which. Carpet is nice on the toes, but if it's going to be stinkin' again in a few years forget it. Vinyl, no stink and easy to wash, but not so nice on the toes. I fish, so I'm not sure if I care about the toe thing, I just want fish.

You got a great project going on there (that I can relate to). Nice cockpit. Looks like you made more room on top of your dash. I will be keeping a close eye.

 

[barryll]

Re: Leak under bow decking

Man, the Q's never stop! Okay, looking at your post got me thinking. Something tells me the answer to this question's going to cost me more money.

Cost you more money???? hehehehehehehehehe..............I bet most of the readers of this forum got a kick out of that. It's a labor of love (it's the love of fishing SAFELY and in comfort for me and the wife).

Why two sonars?

The boat came with a sonar and the other unit is a GPS, With the bubble dash and windscreen slant the sonar was right in my face. I replaced it with a big screen duo - Lowrance LCX 113c HD which require more room thus the console mod. I really wanted to get two seperate units - if the sonar quits you can always use your waypoints and if the GPS quits you will have the sonar to find fish - but it was to costly. I carry a old handheld GPS for backup with my major waypoints home (around the rock shoals/sand bars/harbor).

When you replace your carpet, are you going with new carpet or vinyl?

Carpet is nice on the toes, but if it's going to be stinkin' again in a few years forget it. Vinyl, no stink and easy to wash, but not so nice on the toes. I fish, so I'm not sure if I care about the toe thing, I just want fish.

My buddies boat had carpet on the floor and it never failed, the first trip of the year would end up with the crawler box being dumped on the floor, coffee cups sloshing everywhere, fish flopping, and by the end of the first day, well, it kind of looked like it did at the end of the fishing year. If you go with vinyl you can always cut some carpet remnants or use some throw rugs. Something that you can take out, wash, and dry.

You got a great project going on there (that I can relate to). Nice cockpit. Looks like you made more room on top of your dash. I will be keeping a close eye.

I'll never make it to the "finished boat projects" cause I use it, then I modify it. I bought it, used it for one week, and then took a sawsall to the splashwell, ripped out the dash, changed the power drive front trolling motor with an autopilot, added red rope lighting for night fishing, on board battery charger, etc. I fished from May til mid October last year and now I'm modifying it for this year. (move rod holders, adding fuel management, adjustable seat pedestals, livewell timer, second bilge pump, the list goes on and on like the energizer bunny ). Ya, I've spent lots of money, but I looked for this particular boat (used, I like the highback splashwell) for 8 years and put a little away each year knowing that I would be building a "fishing machine" and I have, so far. It's not pretty but extremely functional and comfortable even in 5/6 footers on the Great Lakes.

I have relied on this forum for almost all my problems, headaches, and encouragement. There are a lot of great people here in all the forums that took time to help, I figure it's my time to help others when I can. Won't be much help in a couple of weeks as the fishing season hits full time and I'll have limited internet access (kind of like ruffing it now-a-days). Good luck and keep asking your questions.