Legal question about international waters

[bowman316]

So the US has its own fishing laws. But can the US enforce its laws on US flagged vessels in international waters?

It seems to me that you can fish illegally in international waters, the illegal part is when you bring those illegal fish back into the USA. is that right?

How can a country enforce its law outside of it borders?

What if you are a US flagged ship, but your going to sell your fish in Mexico? If you ignore the US law, and fish according to Mexico's laws, are you legal?

I could see a scenerio where a foreign ship can catch all it wants to, but the US ship next to it, has to stop at a certain limit. just because of the flag they are flying.

 

[Sandbank]

Re: Legal question about international waters

Hi Bowman, I shall attempt to provide the simple answer, as the laws in this area are complex. In short consider 3 zones around a nations coastline;
The first is the Territorial Seas (or waters) which extends out to basically 12 nm. Within this zone a state has full powers to enforce its laws against any parties.
The second is the contiguous zone that extends past the 12 nm limit and generally goes to 24nm. Rights in this area vary but generally a state may enforce certain rights.
The 3rd is the Economic Exclusion zone(EEZ). Now this zone is in international waters persay but a nation has exclusive control of the economic resources within this area (eg fishing rights) Note that where 400nm not available the limit will generally be the 1/2 way limit between nations or as negotiated.
Laws relating to fishing are generally worded ''in possession'' so there is no recourse to lengthy legal arguments about exactly where the catch came from for state flagged vessels. EEZ laws relate normally to the ''taking'' of the resource and thus they must be caught inthe act of fishing and not merely have possession. So if you get back to the ramp or are in EEZ or Terr Waters and get boarded and are ''in possession'' of fish that are illegal then you are caught if a state owned vessel.
The laws originally came from the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and then the various Nations have enacted their own laws based on these where applicable.
Hopefully that answer q3-they can enforce certain laws out to the limits of their EEZ.
Q4-depends where you caught the fish and what waters your traverse when in possession of the fish.
Foreign fishing vessels (FFV's) must be licensed to fish in a countries territorial waters and contravention will routinely be prosecuted under National (read federal) laws and be enforced by a Federal Agency eg Coast Guard. Similarly, State owned vessels must be similarly licensed if fishing commercially or if not commercial, then abide by the recreational fishing limits laws.
So as for your Mexican example- to 12nm they are gone no matter what
EEZ-may be in possession but of actually take fishing contravention of the EEZ limits then gone.

Of course practical enforcement issues arise with FFV unless you can actually board them and tow back into port. If seen by aerial surveillance then unless the Ship actually docks or comes within your 12nm limit then cant serve the Ships Captain with a notice unless one resorts to serving it within their home country, which would rarely be done.
Wont go into flags of convenience but that can complicate things further...

Hope that helps.

 

[bowman316]

Re: Legal question about international waters

realistically I don't think your gonna get caught out in the open ocean. I think the best chance they have to catch illegal fishermen is when they offload thier catch.

Like on the bearing sea, why couldn't a russian ship crab past the season?

If you catch the crabs in season, then it ends before you make port, can you sell them after the season is over?
or do you have to sell the crabs before the season ends?

I feel like the law should be more concerned about when you sell the fish, as opposed to when they are caught. might make things easier.

 

[diggin4grouper]

Re: Legal question about international waters

the short answer is yes they can noaa marine fisheries http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/ia/index.htm

Like on the bearing sea, why couldn't a russian ship crab past the season?

this should answer that for you

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/msa2007/intlprovisions.html

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: Legal question about international waters

Sandbank: I question the 12 mile limit.....I have a commercial federal fishing license and I come under federal rule once I pass the three mile limit... I do need a state landing permit too, to land any fish.

I do understand the states having control to the 200 mile limit and the continental shelf but, when it comes to fishing rules ..regs... U had best have your federal fishing license in order and not be over your qoutas of allowable fish of the species caught or lobsters for that state where U R going to land your fish.

Bowman: U R notified several days prior by the federal government of the day and time that the season is going to be closed due to the quota being caught...normally U can not sell that catch after the determined closer.

 

[Reel-hip]

Re: Legal question about international waters

I sportfish in Mexico on average once a week. I do not sell my catch so this may not be the answer your looking for. During the U.S season some types of fish are not allowed to be caught (rockfish) It is legal for me to catch fish in Mexico during that time period. I simply fill out a declartion of entry form downloaded from the D.F.G to show what I have caught in Mexico. It must be filled out prior to crossing back into U.S waters.

 

[bowman316]

Re: Legal question about international waters

ok, i think that helps me understand it some.
Even if a mexican ship was catching those illegal rock fish, they would be in just as much trouble if they tried to bring them into the USA. But they would be fine if they just took them back to mexico.