lightning strike - no spark

[glostah]

Hoping somebody could help me out. My 82 Tiara ( '82 Johnson 6 cyl. , I think its a 200 hp ) was hit by lightning in August. After replacing most of the electrical system including:

• ignition switch
• most of the wiring
• every fuse and fuse holder on the boat
• all of the lighting units
• all electrical buses, panels and switches
• spark plugs
• plug wires
• every coil
• both power packs

The boat was actually running really good, but the last time I used it I was pullinginto the dock , it stalled. When trying to restart i think I may have over revved the motor while trying to reverse. I docked the boat, but the engine stalled, and hasn't started since.

I know there is fuel to the block, and have determined that ther is now no spark by a visual inspection of plug connected to the wire while cranking the engine.

Since I have replaced basically everthing on the ignition system, I am assuming it is either the stator or the rectifier.

Can somebody give me some guidlines on just exactly what these things do in relation to creating spark? Also how do I go about testing to see if they are fried - I have a multimeter.

 

[ezeke]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

Disconnect both yellow wires from the rectifier and see if it makes a difference.

 

[glostah]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

Could that cause any damage to the new ignition elements that I just installed?

 

[ezeke]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

Disconnecting the yellow wires will not harm anything.

If the rectifier is bad it can harm other components.

Just want to check off the rectifier and regulator at this point.

 

[glostah]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

Hey ezeke. I really appreciate your help with this, I've learned alot in the past month about marine electrical systems. But I'm still a newbie.

OK I was just down at the boat and I think I may be confused.

Is the rectifier part of the stator? Or is it a stand alone unit?

I took some pictures of what I thought was my rectifier, and then of a spot that looks like it's part of the stator with two yellow leads coming from it.

In the picture below is it location A or Location B.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

Scuse the butt in.

The stator is under the flywheel and is a coil (series of coils) powered by magnets imbedded in the underside of the flywheel which, as they pass the windings (when the flywheel is spinning) generate voltage, primarily ac voltage used for battery charging.

The ac voltage comes out 2 identically colored wires (at least on Merc; looks like yours are the yellow wires you mention in the starboard pic at location B and going into the rect in the port side pic Location A) . I can't see the second yellow wire. Is it hiding under the yellow and purple wires in Location A? It needs to be going to the rect also (both yellow wires).

Most are full wave rectifiers with the ac inputs (yellow), a ground wire (black) hich I see going to a mounting bracket (ground) and a dc output wire that goes to the regulator (if you have one.....a 200 hp should).

Since you said 2 yellow wires are coming from the stator in Location B, the purple wire in Location A must be the dc output to the regulator which is probably another of those aluminum tubs with some wires coming out and epoxy filled.

From the regl you will have a wire (probably red and large; like 10 awg) to the remote harness that goes to recharge the battery and a ground somewhere and maybe another wire or two for control; maybe not.

The stator and rectifier are to recharge your battery. Your ignition runs off your battery and all due respect to ezeke, doubt that it has anything to do with your problem as long as the battery is connected and at proper voltage (12.75 v more or less; engine off).

The alternator (stator and rectifiers) could power the engine, in the absence of a battery, but with the battery installed, all bets are off (for me anyway) that the things we are talking about have anything to do with your ignition problems.

The ignition needs a trigger and it comes from flywheel position information. Some engines use a pulse from the stator and others have a dedicated coil (2 more wires). Again magnets imbedded in the flywheel pass this coil and generate pulses that fire your 6 cylinders.

So you should have additional wires coming out from under the flywheel going to your pulse packs that fire your plugs.

I would think that this circuit would be pretty bulled proof as it is only a coil of wire, but could be fried as a lot of your other stuff was from the lightening strike.

What you need to know to answer your question is whether or not the trigger pulse from here is getting to the pulse modules (that fire the plugs).

If you are getting no spark from any pulse module and each cylinder has a separate module to fire it then it's pretty clear that the input pulse isn't there. Each of the modules should be wired (have a wire coming from) these other wires which come out from under the fly wheel......the trigger pulse input. Need an answer from you concerning wiring on your engine and number of modules mentioned herein.
-------------------------

You aren't clear as to the course of events on your engine quitting, going into reverse, overrevving, and subsequent dieing. Would help to go through that with us to help us understand if you blew something because you did something you shouldn't have or is this just more fallout from the lightening strike.

HTH,

Mark

 

[ezeke]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

The rectifier should have a triangular base with a cylinder centered off of it. It has two yellow wires with connect at the wiring block where it is joined by two wires from under the flywheel which will have yellow coloring but may have grey or other colors as well. It also has a red wire which connects to a red wire at the wiring block which carries dc voltage to the battery for recharging.

Also connected to the rectifier should be a regulator.

The rectifier should look like the one shown here:

http://www.iboats.com/mall/image/vendor/16/big/18-5708.jpg

"Location A" is the voltage regulator.

 

[glostah]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

There is nothing jumping out at me in terms of the rectifier picture, but the leads from location B to go to the wiring block, so I'll assume that the stator leads are connted to the rectifier through the block. I'll try ot back track the wires coming from the same block terminals to find something that looks like a rectifier.

Is this usually a fairly exposed part on the engine? Or is it buried?

 

[glostah]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

I found thiis pretty cool resource btw at http://epc.brp.com

It's a online parts catalog just like they have in the shops.

According to the schematic for my engine, it looks like the two yellow leads that appear to be coming from the stator (Location B) are actually connected to the TIMER BASE & SENSOR ASSY., which looks like it is located inside and under the stator ring. Am I correct on this?

The diagram also shows the rectifier as a standalone, so I'll assume it's not hidden in the block somewhere. I probably just overlooked it.

 

[ezeke]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

I'ver edited the stator out of my previous entry so that it just says "from under the flywheel.

What is the round object under the letter D in "STARBOARD" in your "Location B" photo? Looks like it might be a rectifier.

The original wiring from under the flywheel had one grey and yellow wire and one yellow wire, as did the original rectifier. That was about 24 years ago and colors fade and parts get changed. The newer rectifiers just have two yellow wires. The yellow wires from the rectifier to the wiring block are ones to disconnect.

This rectifier is a system of diodes allowing current to flow in only one direction. Usually when they go bad they just stop working and the battery will not charge, and/or the tach will not work.

Sometimes, however, especially when the source of damage is strong, the wiring inside the rectifier fuses, allowing current to flow back to parts where it should not go, which can then damage those parts as well.

 

[glostah]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

Yeah ezek.

That's the rectifier. It was right in front of my face - doh!

Thanks for the additional info on how it works. So you are saying it works like a one way valve in plumbing I think.

I'll disconnect and see what happens. Should I be jumping the terminals the leads are conntected to?

The tach has not been functioning properly since the lightning strike, but I just figured the gauge was fried by the E.M.P. - I experienced a lot of reverse polarity on the other gauges.

The tach was actually going directly to 5,000 - 6,000 as soon as current went across it when I turned the ignition key. It would stay that way even with the motor running.

BTW where are you on the Cape?

 

[ezeke]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

No need to do anything else - you won't have battery charging or a tach working until you put it back. Just want to eliminate the possibility of interference from there.

Yes, and the power from the engine is alternating current. The output from the rectifier is positive direct current going in only one direction - to the battery.

Orleans

 

[glostah]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

gotta love the East Orleans Deli!

Worked a summer there doing landscape up at Nauset Heights and surrounding area...

 

[ezeke]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

Just reading over this thread reminded me of a few other things.

1. The battery in your system has nothing directly to do with ignition. It is needed to turn the starter motor and to power the T&T and the solenoids.

2. Check the lanyard/emergency kill switch to make sure that it is open. The yellow and black wire to the power packs may be grounding out somewhere along the line if it is not at the ignition switch or emergency kill switch, it may be shorting along the harness.

3. There is a switch inside the control called a neutral start switch that prevents starting in gear. It can short if it is not positioned correcly and keep you from starting.

 

[glostah]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

ok disconnected the rectifier and still nothing.

In terms of the battery, I have two Batteries on a three position Battery Switch, so I'm getting really good crank from both of them individually and as a pair. The solenoids seem to be working great, as well as the T/T because I just replaced the relays.

I'm not sure what you mean by the lanyard/emergency kill switch. Is that like the litte key that you keep tied to your wrist. This boat doesn't have anything like that.

Re the neutral start switch
When I put the boat in forward or reverse and try to start, there is no crank. But when I put the control in neutral, or neutral with throttle, it cranks just fine. Should I assume that the switch is working correctly, or is there some way to test it?

 

[ezeke]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

The neutral start switch sounds OK.

You can disconnect the black and yellow wire at the power packs and see if the engine starts. That will leave you with no way to turn the motor off except to choke it to a stop, so be prepared to do that.

 

[glostah]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

Both packs are brand new, literally used twice.

BRB.

 

[glostah]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

OK

The power packs come with a ground wire (grounds to the block) and two lead harnesses. One harness is four wire (blue, green,purple ,white) that looks like it goes to the stator. The other harness is two wire (brown, brown-yellow). Then there are the coil wires that lead to the ignition coils, but i figure I need those connect to deliver the spark.

What do I disconnect?

 

[glostah]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

I disconnected the brown and brown-yellow harness and nothing happened.

 

[ezeke]

Re: lightning strike - no spark

The power packs - 1 on each bank of cylinders, should have three connectors each, plus a ground.

One of the connectors on each powerpack contains four wires, three of which go to the cylinders [ignition coils] on that side. The fourth wire is black and yellow and is the one that needs to be disconnected for the test. The other three coil wires on that plug are orange, orange and blue , and orange and green.

The black and yellow wire is the kill wire for the ignition system. Normally it grounds out the power packs only when the ignition key is turned to off. If there is a short or malfunction along the path of the harness, the black and yellow wire may ground and the power packs will not function. If that happens, you get no fire to the spark plugs.