Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

[adam7]

I was at the Bass Pro shop this weekend and just happened to swing by the marine electronics. The Fish Finder on my boat has been acting up lately, and we've wanted to get a GPS anyways, so I was looking primarily at the chartplotter/sonar combo units.

I guess I've settled on the fact that there really isn't a cheap option when it comes to Marine GPS, so the smallest price I figured I'd be paying would be $500-$600. That range gets me about a 4" screen Garmin, but for $200 more I was also considering these at $799: (prices include transducers)

Garmin 541S:
http://www.basspro.com/Garmin-GPSMAP-541S-GPS-Chartplotter/Sounder/product/10204785/-1640634

Lorance HDS-5:
http://www.basspro.com/Lowrance-HDS5-Fishfinder/GPS-Chartplotter/product/103484/-1549186

I gave the slight advantage to the Lorance because of the much more detailed cartography lines. I think they are both expandable to add in side scanning sonar, radar, and engine gauges, which means they'd both be good candidates to keep when/if we get a bigger boat. At the same time, this is probably overkill for 98% of the inshore fishing I would find myself doing (in a 19ft Key West).

But If I need to spend $600, another $200 doesn't seem to sound as bad when you account for the larger screen and expand ability (though not likely to be used any time soon). Does anyone have experience with either of these? Are there other options I should consider as well? Keep in mind this was just what they had on display at the store and I wanted to get some hands on time before I really pick one.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

I had a Lowrance 525CDF on a previous boat and liked it so I started looking at the HDS units. I settled on the HDS-8 because I also added StructureScan, the LWX-1 Weather/Radio and the SonicHub. When running StructureScan you have two displays to look at side scan and down scan. If you throw the chart in there and standard sonar you're looking at 4 screens. The 8" screen is about the minimum you'd want I think. I've got about 2500.00 invested in mine now with charts and all.

The point I'm trying to make is that while the add-ons are available the key to using them is in conjuntion with the others. A small screen will limit your ability to do this. There is a huge difference between the 5 and the 8. I'm not sure what the point of the HDS-7 is and I don't expect to see it in next years line up.

By the way, I've just got a 16' fishing boat and I consider mine essential equipment. The LWX-1 weather module is crucial for me in knowing when to get off the water or even go out for that matter. The fact that it adds Sirus Sattelite Radio if you have the SonicHub is just a bonus.

Also, engine monitoring requires NMEA2000 sensors. Merc just now started producing motors with NMEA2000 data output via the 500.00 MercMonitor module. This well give you essential gauges. Yamaha has had it for several years now. A fuel flow sensor can be added to give you decent fuel usage estimates.

If you buy the Lowrance and want to add sensors via NMEA 2000 then you must also purchase the Lowrance NMEA2000 starter kit. Don't forget it or you won't be able to use the sensors.

The Lowrance also has Ethernet and why they didn't just make it all Ethernet is beyond me. The StrucureScan and LWX-1 are Enet but the SonicHub is NMEA2000.

Hope this helps in your decision.

 

[adam7]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

So does that mean my 2002 Merc won't be compatible with any sensors? It doesn't even track the hours on it so I wouldn't be surprised. Also, I assume the Sirius needs a subscription right? How much is that?

Thanks for the info.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

I don't like multi-function units to begin with because you lose a display, you?ve lost everything but I have to agree w/ SSchefer, a small screen on a unit intended for use as a MFD is next to useless.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

I don't like multi-function units to begin with because you lose a display, you?ve lost everything but I have to agree w/ SSchefer, a small screen on a unit intended for use as a MFD is next to useless.

Agree, in a larger boat dual head units are advisable. Keep one for navigation and one for fishin. The subscription runs up to 75.00 per month depending upon the wx coverage you want. I just went with the inland but got the full radio package. I think it ended up being about 30.00 a month. I have mine setup month to month so I can cancel that portion in off season.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

So does that mean my 2002 Merc won't be compatible with any sensors? It doesn't even track the hours on it so I wouldn't be surprised. Also, I assume the Sirius needs a subscription right? How much is that?

Thanks for the info.

No, both the Lowrance and Garmin need a SmartCraft capable Merc engine. It wasn't until 2011 that Merc decided to drop the proprietary SmartCraft data and use NMEA 2000. You still need the MercMonitor or a Livorsi adapter module to get the data to the head unit. You can still buy flow sensors and other NMEA sensors to monitor your engine with but the data comming from your ECU is not usable.

There's always a chance that somebody might come up with a kit for the older engines but it would have to be someone with really deep pockets. I can't see any good business logic behind it.

 

[adam7]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

So it sounds to me like the Lorance is the way to go...

 

[RJ17]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

I have been looking to upgrade the Humminbird GPS/Fishfinder that came with my boat. It has the small B/W screen (maybe 3"?) and with my eyes I have a hard time reading it. I was looking at the Humminbird and the Lowrance. The guy at my local Bass Pro told me to go with Lowrance, for a number of different reasons. Once i started playing with it I liked the buttons/interface and the display better than the Humminbird. I am leaning toward the HDS-7. Notwithstanding Sschefer's experience I think that the 7 will be all I need. I have no intention of wiring so much through it (like Sirius, weather and side scan) though I think some of these can be added to the 7. I just want the larger display, the greater detail and the POI information that comes with the 7 over the 5.

 

[TerryMSU]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

Just remember that they ALL work great using the in-store demo mode. Unfortunately, the human-to-machine interface is a very small part of having a good fishfinder. Not saying that your initial choice is a bad one, just saying make sure you do all the research you can. Seeing it work on the water is ideal. Unfortunately, most of us do not have that option.

TerryMSU

 

[jhebert]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

So does that mean my 2002 Merc won't be compatible with any sensors?

Mercury uses a proprietary engine data protocol called SmartCraft. The easiest way to discover if your engine has SmartCraft is to look on the engine cowling for a SmartCraft decal. If your engine does have SmartCraft, you will have to install a Mercury SmartCraft system and SmartCraft gauges. The Mercury SmartCraft system is not intended for owner-installation, and there is not much literature available about it. Typically SmartCraft systems are installed by the boat builder when the boat is first mated to a Mercury engines. So you will have to try to accomplish the SmartCraft installation yourself by ordering various parts from your Mercury dealer, or you can hire your Mercury dealer to install it for you, assuming they have experience with it. I would budget about $500 to get SmartCraft installed at the minimum configuration.

Once you have your Mercury engine--assuming it was capable of SmartCraft--fitted with SmartCraft, you will have to purchase the Mercury NMEA-2000 gateway device. This is only sold in a bundle with a special gauge. The gateway is also sold in tiers, with each tier providing more data. The least expensive tier will be about $500. This provides just the minimal data from the engine. Also, data available depends on the engine. On smaller engines there is less data available.

Once you have the Mercury engine set up with SmartCraft and a gateway to NMEA-2000, you will have to install a NMEA-2000 network. You can easily do this yourself. The cost will be about $100.

Now, about $1,100 later, you are ready to connect your Mercury engine to a NMEA-2000 multifunction display. In my opinion, very few small boat owners will take this option, and, in general, Mercury engines are just not very practical to connect to NMEA-2000 instruments unless you already have a SmartCraft system installed and already have a NMEA-2000 network installed. Then the cost is down to just the $500 for the gateway, or possibly more if you want to buy a higher tier product in the series that will give you more information across the gateway.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

Mercury uses a proprietary engine data protocol called SmartCraft. The easiest way to discover if your engine has SmartCraft is to look on the engine cowling for a SmartCraft decal. If your engine does have SmartCraft, you will have to install a Mercury SmartCraft system and SmartCraft gauges. The Mercury SmartCraft system is not intended for owner-installation, and there is not much literature available about it. Typically SmartCraft systems are installed by the boat builder when the boat is first mated to a Mercury engines. So you will have to try to accomplish the SmartCraft installation yourself by ordering various parts from your Mercury dealer, or you can hire your Mercury dealer to install it for you, assuming they have experience with it. I would budget about $500 to get SmartCraft installed at the minimum configuration.

Once you have your Mercury engine--assuming it was capable of SmartCraft--fitted with SmartCraft, you will have to purchase the Mercury NMEA-2000 gateway device. This is only sold in a bundle with a special gauge. The gateway is also sold in tiers, with each tier providing more data. The least expensive tier will be about $500. This provides just the minimal data from the engine. Also, data available depends on the engine. On smaller engines there is less data available.

Once you have the Mercury engine set up with SmartCraft and a gateway to NMEA-2000, you will have to install a NMEA-2000 network. You can easily do this yourself. The cost will be about $100.

Now, about $1,100 later, you are ready to connect your Mercury engine to a NMEA-2000 multifunction display. In my opinion, very few small boat owners will take this option, and, in general, Mercury engines are just not very practical to connect to NMEA-2000 instruments unless you already have a SmartCraft system installed and already have a NMEA-2000 network installed. Then the cost is down to just the $500 for the gateway, or possibly more if you want to buy a higher tier product in the series that will give you more information across the gateway.

Merc switched to NMEA2000 data in 2011. I use the Livorsi gateway and it works fine.

 

[adam7]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

I don't know if its worth it to me to spend $1100 or more just to get that engine data sent to the screen. Although right now about the only gauge that works is the tach, so it would be nice. But that's about it, nice, not "necessary".

 

[JB]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

I guess my needs are a lot simpler than some. I want a first class marine/auto GPS chartplotter with a readable color screen and available detailed cartography. I have a Garmin GPSMAP 276C and several DVDs for that need. The automotive applications and cartography boosted the cost about $400 above the base price. It was somewhere around $400 for just the Marine base unit, but that was quite a few years ago. They go, complete, on ebay for $600-$800. Mine has been mounted on three boats and four vehicles and still tells the truth.

It seemed inefficient at the time to get separate, lower performing units for the boat and car, but today you can get mickey mouse mobile units for dirt cheap. They don't have the capabilities of a good chartplotter (which I am used to and prefer) but they cost just fractions as much.

For SONAR I want to see depth, structure and fish. I don't care about color, so I had (when I had my own boat) an Eagle Cuda. It did fine, for well under $100.

I do not plan to go to the moon, so I neither want nor need a one box everything-monitor. Depending too much on one box for all is like all eggs in one basket

 

[jhebert]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

Merc switched to NMEA2000 data in 2011.

You must be the only person on the planet Mercury told about this. No one else has heard of this. Mercury introduced a GATEWAY from their proprietary SmartCraft in 2009.

Here are some details about the Gateway. This is from an article I wrote two years ago when it came out:

It seemed inevitable that Mercury would have to provide some method for networking their closed SmartCraft network to the open NMEA-2000 network which has gained very wide acceptance. To pass data between the two networks Mercury has created a series of devices called gateways. The gateways connect to both the SmartCraft network and the NMEA-2000 network and contain software which allows them to translate the data from one network to another. The translation is not universal, that is, the gateways do not understand how to translate all data carried on either network; they only translate a subset of the hundred of parameters available. The gateways are provided in four tiers, each handling a different number of parameters. The gateways are also limited to the number of Mercury engines they can accommodate. Mercury engine owners will need to buy one gateway per engine, except for the QUAD models, which can handle four engines.


The BASE and single gateway (879337K51) provides nine parameters:

--RPM
--Voltage
--Oil Pressure
--Coolant Temperature
--Tank Level Fuel
--Fluid Level (Fuel 2, Oil, water, waste)
--Trim position
--Water Pressure
--SmartCraft Alarm Data (only 7 alarms)

The RPM SMART TOW and single gateway (879338K51) provides 18 parameters:

--Boost Pressure (Verado)
--Voltage
--Oil Pressure
--Coolant Temperature
--Tank Level Fuel
--Fuel Flow
--Engine hours
--Boost Pressure (Verado)
--Oil Temperature (Verado)
--Fluid Level (Fuel 2, Oil, water, waste)
--Trim position
--Water Pressure
--Tabs
--GPS Speed/COG/Lat-Lon (IN ONLY)
--Depth
--Sea Water Temp
--Paddle speed
--Pitot speed
--SmartCraft Alarm Data (only 7 alarms)

The RPM SMART TOW and quad gateway provides (879339K51) 25 parameters:

--RPM
--Voltage
--Oil Pressure
--Coolant Temperature
--Tank Level Fuel
--Fuel Flow
--Engine hours
--Boost Pressure (Verado)
--Oil Temperature (Verado)
--Genset IN ONLY J1939 Kohler
--Fluid Level (Fuel 2, Oil, water, waste)
--Trim position
--Water Pressure
--Tabs
--GPS Speed/COG/Lat-Lon (IN ONLY)
--Depth
--Sea Water Temp
--Paddle speed
--Pitot speed
--SmartCraft Alarm Data (only 7 alarms)
--Rudder Angle
--Gear Pressure (CMD Diesel)
--Gear Temp (CMD Diesel)
--Fuel Pressure
--Capacity

And finally a SMART TOW PRO and quad gateway (879337K52) with 24 parameters, same as above minus the Genset.

If Mercury had gone with NMEA-2000 to begin with, these expensive gateway products would not be necessary. All the other outboard manufacturers use NMEA-2000--Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda, and Evinrude. Mercury is the lone wolf with their private network approach. The solution is the $500 gateway.

If Mercury abandoned SmartCraft, you'd think they'd stop trying to sell it on their website:

http://www.mercurymarine.com/precisionrigging/smartcraft/

Also, please note that at the first tier of the Gateway product you do not get any fuel flow data provided. This means you cannot see engine fuel flow, compute engine fuel economy in MPG, or accumulate fuel usage so you can track fuel tank levels. You have to add on more expense to get to the second-tier upgrade of the gateway. If you had an NMEA-2000 engine you would get all that data from the engine, no extra costs. Again, there is little incentive to construct a SmartCraft to NMEA-2000 gateway on a small boat. If you have a gold-plated triple VERADO boat, you won't mind an extra $500 to $1,500 in expense for the gateway to display on your $8,000 multi-function display. But nobody is going to spend that kind of money to see engine data on a $450 chart plotter.

 

[sschefer]

Re: Lorance Vs Garmin Vs...?

Whatever you say their partner. Mines working just fine.