lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

ryantcobb

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I have a Johnson 6hp seahorse model 1976 and i cleaned my points and ends of spark plugs with sandpaper--and got great spark when i put the flywheel on--put plugs in motor pulled cord a few times and lose spark--i have no spark what so ever in either plug?I'm not hooked up to a gas tank, but i put gas in cylinder with a syrenge so i don't see whats wrong here? please help me here was trying to get this motor to run i know it will run, after i fix this problem<br /><br />One last thing my wires are good i think becasue i had spark before and the plugs are good,i used them in my other outboard motor please help!!<br /><br /> Rcobb
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Ryan... With a small brush and laquer thinner or acetone, clean any possible dirt out of the point contacts. Then with the flywheel/crankshaft key aligned with the fiber contact area of the points, set the points to a close .020.... so that a .020 feeler gauge will go, but a .022 will not.<br /><br />Rig up a spark tester of some kind and check the spark with the spark plugs removed. The spark should jump a 1/4" gap on that model.<br /><br />Let us know what happens.
 

sloopy

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

hmn.... did you remember to put every thing back together
 

ryantcobb

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

joe--Heres the thing could the flywheel/crankshaft key make the engine not start?<br /><br /> If so i don't seem to have a key(don't see a key don't know what it looks like) got motor without it--i would like to know where i can buy or order one if it is needed to start and run the motor.I did however put everything back like it was --- rcobb
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Rcobb.... The flywheel key is a half moon shaped object that goes in the groove that you see on the crankshaft taper. It must absolutely be there as it keeps the flywheel in place in relation to the crankshaft. This must be exact as the magnets on the flywheel must be in a certain place as they pass the coils in relation to the location of the pistons to have the coils fire the s/plugs at a determined time.<br /><br />If that sounds a little complex, the bottom line is that the key must be there to keep the engine in time.<br /><br />The key is installed so that the outer straight edge is vertical to the engine (straight up & down), not slanted to be in line with the crankshaft taper.<br /><br />I can't get at my books right now due to the alarm being set, but I'll look up the part number of the key in the morning and get back to you. Or perhaps someone else will get that number for you.
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Rcobb.... The OMC part number of the flywheel key is 120395 and can be purchased at any Evinrude or Johnson dealership.
 

ryantcobb

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Well turns out that i found a flywheel key, but also found out that this motor is a 1973 so i'm going monday afternoon to pick up the key. Now i tryed what you sayed with acetone and still didn't get any spark? I got a great spark for a sec or two before this happend.I guess that key is not only my problem.Will let you know what happens mon night.<br /><br /> Thanks Joe for your help..<br /><br /> Rcobb
 

Paul Moir

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Did you disconnect the condensors (capacitors - can shaped things with one wire) when you cleaned the points? The wires should be going to the terminal on the points. They prevent them from arcing and burning on opening. However, I'm not sure whether or not the points would erode *that* quickly.
 

ryantcobb

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Paul you mean the cylinder shaped things, i switched them around and put them back together right cleaned points and had a great spark...put spark plugs back in motor cranked(motor didn't start) lose spark some how in between putting the plugs in the motor or someother way i don't know what wrong here?<br /> <br /> rcobb
 

radsrh

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

You need to have the key installed between the flywheel and the crankshaft before you try to start the motor. With the plugs installed you are getting compression and by pulling on the started rope you are turning the flywheel out of sync with the crankshaft and that is why you are loosing spark.
 

Paul Moir

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Oops. I misread Rcobb's 6:55 post. I thought he had tried it with a key. He was pretty lucky getting the flywheel on right without it though.
 

ryantcobb

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Thank you all for your help. I will let you all know what happens on monday night with this engine. Thanks again<br /><br /> Rcobb
 

ryantcobb

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Sunday--I got spark today on the motor again, still don't have key yet, going tomorrow to get it, but i pulled the cord on her and on the 4th pull the engine back fired--i hope thats a good sign ,that shows me that i guess all i need is the key to make her run again. I only hope that the engine has enough power to make the prop turn so i know she is running at the aprx. rpms <br /> Well will post again tomorrow and let yall know what happens with ''old besty''<br /> <br /> Rcobb :eek:
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Rcobb.... If that engine had started without having that flywheel key in place, you would have encountered damage to the crankshaft and flywheel tapers! You may have already damaged them so take a good look to make sure that they aren't scored. Those tapers must be perfect.<br /><br />Use Champion J6C spark plugs or their equivilent with the gap set to .030.
 

ryantcobb

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

i got the flywheel key in place .I am getting great spark form both plugs... but engine still doesn't start.... Every once in a while on a pull the engine will backfire....So whats wrong here?<br />How do i get it to run????? <br /> <br /> Rcobb :confused:
 

Joe Reeves

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Rcobb.... If it's an actual backfire, a loud explosion out the exhaust that wants to yank the starter cord out of your hand, you have the s/plug wires reversed.<br /><br />If it's a mild backfire, sort of spitting out the carburetor throat, the carburetor is fouled and should be cleaned. After cleaning (be sure to clean the high speed jet in the bottom center of the float chamber), the proper method to adjust it is as follows:<br /><br />Carburetor Adjustment - Single S/S Adjustable Needle Valve)<br /><br />Initial setting is: Slow speed (top) = seat gently, then open 1-1/2 turns.<br /><br />Start the engine and set the rpms to where it just stays running. In segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the S/S needle valve in. Wait a few seconds for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in, the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again to where the engine will just stay running. Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting. <br /><br />When you have finished the above adjustment, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.
 

ryantcobb

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Joe--I still have that problem of getting the engine to start.That backfire i though was a good thing? anyway i reversed the plug wires and still backfired. Now on one of the plug wires the word ''UP'' is on the wire---does this plug go in the top cylinder??? I'm bypassing the carb.., by putting gas in the cylinders with a syrenge, the carb shouldn't be the problem, right??<br /><br /> Also in what poosition does the pistons have to be in when the plugs fire ??ex.(cylinder 1 down or up. cylinder 2 down or up when clyinder 1 is in opposite position???? <br /><br /> thanks in advance rcobb :eek: :confused:
 

ryantcobb

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Forgot to add in my last post----Could a leaky head gasket cause the engine to not start, could this be the problem??????I wondering if this engine is ever going to run again?!!?!????!<br /><br /> RCOBB :mad:
 

ryantcobb

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Hello, I wish to thank all of you for your time and your patience with my son Ryan.<br /><br /> To begin with Ryan inherited this 6hp 1973 Johnson from his grandma, but not before a cousin somewhaty abused. Either way, it is good that Ryan is learning.<br /><br /> When we received this motor the pistons were froze and the plugs removed, the flywheel-cam key missing. We used a penetrating oil in both cylinders and let it set up for a couple of monthes. Finally useing a piece of wood we removed the head and lightly tapped the pistons, they finally have been freed. We cleaned the cylinders and flushed and reflushed till all debri was removed.<br /><br /> As we do not know the truth concerning what initially happened with the motor, we do know that the cousin did not know what he was doing.<br /><br /> Update: The two plugs are entirely different, Joe- you said to make sure champion<br />J6c plugs. We are currently getting them. We have set the points at .020 as written on top of flywheel. We have installed the key and have good 1/4 inch spark from current worn plugs, expect improvement on spark with new and right plugs.<br /><br /> We have bypassed the carb by injection of fuel directly into the cylinders, only to see if the motor will even fire up for start. I am concerned that perhaps the timing may be off as well.<br /><br /> The motor itself has backfired, but a mild back fire, reversed the plug wire and the motor then sounds as if it wants to start. Rechecked spark and spark was good with current old plugs.<br /><br /> #1 my question has to do with setting of points to begin with, should throttle be wide open or closed completely? <br /><br /> #2 what position should piston be in when points are open?<br /><br /> #3 As head gasket is still in one piece can I use some gasket sealer and stll maintain a good seal. I know that a leaky gasket causes a loss of compression and work force, but engine should still start up?<br /><br />#4 How can I check the timing and if necessary, reset it?<br /><br /> Again I thank you for your expertise and patience. Robert
 

ryantcobb

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Re: lose spark on my john 6 hp......why??

Well got the right spark plugs--i don't think it made a difference..took head gasket off and found on the top cylinder rim where the piston and the gasket meetlookes to be hit/hammermaybe 4 times tops!! i put gasket seal on that cylinder rim put head on and bolted in place.<br />Could be make the engine never run again because of that damage there, even if i sealed it with gasket sealer?/?<br /><br /> Or do i need to be hooked up to a gas tank to make the engine get good fuel pressure to start the engine? <br /> PLEASE HELP AGAIN!!!! :confused: <br /><br /> Rcobb
 
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