Made typical mistakes buying first boat. Where do we go from here?

[kerofish1]

Hi, guys, newbie here. I grew up in a family of fishermen and have fond memories of time spent on the water. So I came home from my annual family fishing trip last summer and told my husband we were buying a boat whether or not he wanted one. We bought a '91 Sunbird Corsair off Craigslist for 2k.

The boat looked like it was in great shape, the engine started flawlessly, the deck was solid. We screwed up winterizing it (that's another story) and took it into the shop a couple weeks ago. We asked them to check it out a little bit--it has a tendency to get water in the bilge, but the pump keeps up with it fine. We thought maybe the seals around the lower unit needed replacing. Turns out the transom's really soft! They drilled into it to check the stringers and the results were inconclusive, but now I'm suspicious of the whole boat.

When we were looking at boats, I always figured that lack of structural integrity would be easy to spot. The boat served us fine over the summer...I suppose I didn't know what to look for.

The worker at the shop is discouraging us from putting money into fixing it because it will probably wind up being a money pit/complete rebuild. Hey, at least he's honest (or trying to sell us a new boat). So where do we go from here? I have a few questions:

• Are we truly going to have to scrap this boat and move on? We never seemed to be in any danger this summer...could we hold off until next fall, and then dump the money into it to fix everything, or is that reckless?
• If we're going to buy a new boat...should we buy from a dealer next time to avoid a surprise like this?
• Our price range would be about $5,000 and we'd be looking for a similar runabout or possibly a pontoon. Our minimum expectations are that it is structurally sound/not secretly rotting and the engine runs. Is that realistic?
• If we get a new boat, what do I do with this one? I doubt anyone will buy it in its current condition!
• How do I become more mechanically savvy? I would love to take this boat on as a project, but I have no tools, nor anywhere to work on it besides the lot where we store it. I've been doing a lot of reading on the forum, but everything assumes a basic level of knowledge I don't have ("Drain the oil" means nothing to me, nor does "engine manifold" or "check the spark plugs").If someone could suggest books on how boats and engines are constructed and how to maintain them, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks, and sorry for the information-dump. I'm a very DIY person (software engineer), so it's frustrating and a little embarrassing that I failed to notice I bought a bad boat...and it's frustrating that I can't fix it.

 

[Watermann]

:welcome: to the iboats forum

You're budget put's you right smack in the middle of the neglected boat danger zone. While most boats if taken care of don't have nearly the chance of being a rotten mess but it's like finding a needle in a haystack. There are just so many boat owners that just don't give a rip and then unload their mess after putting some lipstick and mascara on it.

Good luck and check out this thread...
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/gene...eeding-help-buying-a-boat-a-buyer-s-checklist

 

[Tnstratofam]

Welcome. Trust me when I say this It is hard to find a boat in that price range that doesn't need work. Most of the true problems lie in wait buried under nice looking carpet, vinyl, and gelcoat. Your boat could be rebuilt, but the cost, and time may be very prohibitive. What engine, and out drive set up do you have? Or is it an outboard? If you don't have an emotional attachment it might be a good time to part her out and save your money for a better boat. Or you could take her home, and start tearing into her to see how bad she really is. You've certainly come to the best place for help to rebuild it. The people here are the best around to point you in the right direction, and help you no matter what you decide.

 

[redneck joe]

welcome to the forum. You said screwing up the winterizing was another story,, but if you can give us the cliff notes that might factor into next steps; fix or trash.

 

[alldodge]

Hi, guys, newbie here. I grew up in a family of fishermen and have fond memories of time spent on the water. So I came home from my annual family fishing trip last summer and told my husband we were buying a boat whether or not he wanted one. We bought a '91 Sunbird Corsair off Craigslist for 2k.

The boat looked like it was in great shape, the engine started flawlessly, the deck was solid. We screwed up winterizing it (that's another story) and took it into the shop a couple weeks ago. We asked them to check it out a little bit--it has a tendency to get water in the bilge, but the pump keeps up with it fine. We thought maybe the seals around the lower unit needed replacing. Turns out the transom's really soft! They drilled into it to check the stringers and the results were inconclusive, but now I'm suspicious of the whole boat.

When we were looking at boats, I always figured that lack of structural integrity would be easy to spot. The boat served us fine over the summer...I suppose I didn't know what to look for.

The worker at the shop is discouraging us from putting money into fixing it because it will probably wind up being a money pit/complete rebuild. Hey, at least he's honest (or trying to sell us a new boat). So where do we go from here? I have a few questions:

• Are we truly going to have to scrap this boat and move on? We never seemed to be in any danger this summer...could we hold off until next fall, and then dump the money into it to fix everything, or is that reckless?
• If we're going to buy a new boat...should we buy from a dealer next time to avoid a surprise like this?
• Our price range would be about $5,000 and we'd be looking for a similar runabout or possibly a pontoon. Our minimum expectations are that it is structurally sound/not secretly rotting and the engine runs. Is that realistic?
• If we get a new boat, what do I do with this one? I doubt anyone will buy it in its current condition!
• How do I become more mechanically savvy? I would love to take this boat on as a project, but I have no tools, nor anywhere to work on it besides the lot where we store it. I've been doing a lot of reading on the forum, but everything assumes a basic level of knowledge I don't have ("Drain the oil" means nothing to me, nor does "engine manifold" or "check the spark plugs").If someone could suggest books on how boats and engines are constructed and how to maintain them, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks, and sorry for the information-dump. I'm a very DIY person (software engineer), so it's frustrating and a little embarrassing that I failed to notice I bought a bad boat...and it's frustrating that I can't fix it.

:welcome: to iboats

You can find many boats in that price range but also agree that this is in most cases the repair zone. This isn't to say there are not some real nice ones out there which are in good shape, but these will be older boats, probably one owner and garage kept. Finding one from a dealer does not mean you will have a good boat but the possibilities are higher. To go along with the dealer side, they usually won't keep a boat in that price range, they will sell them off.

With you limited knowledge of boats and what to look for, maybe a pontoon would be best. The pontoon has less places to hide repair issues, but the down side is the engine. You could find a pontoon for the 5K range but it's going to have an old 2-cycle engine on it. The 4 stroke outboards are expensive and an older engine could cost 5K by it's self.

What ever boat you find, you need to test drive it. Let it sit in the water for a while and check for leaks. Bring a screw driver along and ask if you can use it to check for soft spots. If the transom is solid you will not be able to push the blade into the hull. If the owner does not allow it, walk away

Good luck

 

[tpenfield]

Welcome to the iBoats community, you have come to a good place for your situation.

Here is my advice and answers to your questions . . .

• Are we truly going to have to scrap this boat and move on? We never seemed to be in any danger this summer...could we hold off until next fall, and then dump the money into it to fix everything, or is that reckless?

A Sunbird is not really worth saving. Most often you see folks saving SeaRays and other brands that are higher up on the food chain. If you were seeing water in the boat and presumably from the transom area leaking, it may be a fair assumption that the leak could increase quickly without notice. Given that the boat may have lots of water in the structure and related flotation foam, it would be a good assumption that the boat would sink if the leak became real bad suddenly.

• If we're going to buy a new boat...should we buy from a dealer next time to avoid a surprise like this?

You mean a 'new to you' boat (right?).. Dealers will probably not dabble too much, if at all, in the price range that you are thinking. So, there may not be any benefit to going through a dealer versus a private sale. Your budget of $5K, puts you in the Craigslist crowd, so you need to be knowledgeable to find the diamond in the rough. One of the things I learned when buying boats is that you are better off to buy an older quality brand of boat in order to meet a budget constraint. However, there is a certain 'minimum entry' in order to get into a decent boat. $5K is a little light for that entry fee, as previously mentioned. $10K is better. When I was buying my first powerboat (I had sailboats previously) I figured $10K would do it. After some armchair shopping via the Internet, I realized that $20K was more realistic . . . of course that also required a larger tow vehicle, and I have been poverty stricken ever since

• Our price range would be about $5,000 and we'd be looking for a similar runabout or possibly a pontoon. Our minimum expectations are that it is structurally sound/not secretly rotting and the engine runs. Is that realistic?

Not realistic, maybe in a pontoon, but see my comments above.

• If we get a new boat, what to I do with this one? I doubt anyone will buy it in its current condition!

'New to you' . . . scrap yard or part out the Sunboid. The engine or parts thereof might bring you some $$$ on eBay or CL.

• How do I become more mechanically savvy? I would love to take this boat on as a project, but I have no tools, nor anywhere to work on it besides the lot where we store it. I've been doing a lot of reading on the forum, but everything assumes a basic level of knowledge I don't have ("Drain the oil" means nothing to me, nor does "engine manifold" or "check the spark plugs").If someone could suggest books on how boats and engines are constructed and how to maintain them, I'd appreciate it!

Ask for a 500 piece tool-set as a holiday gift. Look at pictures and parts diagrams of boat engines, boat construction methods, anything that you can Google, YouTube, etc. If you are a software engineer, it should not be that hard. I find that pictures or videos are sometimes better that articles in terms of coming up to speed. For example, if you search YouTube for 'drain the oil' . . . in 10-15 minutes, you can get a pretty good understanding of what it is and how it is done. Same for a lot of things.

Hopefully, things will work out for you as even with a decent used boat, you will need to fix it and maintain it quite often. that just seems to be the way with boats.

 

[Natesms]

I'm a very DIY person (software engineer), so it's frustrating and a little embarrassing that I failed to notice I bought a bad boat...and it's frustrating that I can't fix it.

From a fellow software engineer, don't beat yourself up, I did the exact same thing, except it was with a $4500 Crownline and my family and I have owned boats for 31 of my 35 years.

As for your situation, Scrape the boat and start over. That being said, I think the cliff notes on winterization are pertinent though. If you just dropped a new motor into it we might change our tune.

I put a new deck and stringers into the back half of my crownline, the font was actually in great shape. I left the transom as the rot was only around the out sides at the time and the job is just horrible. It's one of the worst DIY projects out there in my opinion and unless there is sentimental value or you have a ton of time on your hands not worth it. All other costs aside, it's the time that was the killer.

In my crownline the transom is in fact slowly rotting away and I drill it to test it how far the rot has made it in the spring and fall. First sign of flex or a stress crack and I part her out and scrap it. A rotten transom is in fact dangerous and based on your description I would not ignore it.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Welcome aboard.

sorry to hear about your life lesson. we hear that often on the forums. you are not alone. and almost everyone on here has made a mistake or two along the way.

not knowing what you have for a motor or driveline, that may help us settle on a final course of action. Corsairs came in both outboard models and I/O models.

Since your transom is rotten, and most likely the stringers are too, I say, strip the hull, sell the hardware (windows, cleats, etc.) to another sunbird owner, or sell the whole thing as "needs serious work"

I know that sunbirds mostly came with OMC power. However if you have a mercruiser driveline in good running condition (depending on the cliff notes from your winterization mishap), you may be able to salvage the motor and outdrive to move to a more desirable hull (crownline or searay) that needs a motor and/or outdrive. Wait until spring to buy one. there will be plenty available from poor winterization (people trying to suck up antifreeze vs draining sort of thing).

If you can afford a larger budget, I would recommend it. as many stated, the $5k range is the grey zone. many great boats in the $10-15k range.

 

[steelespike]

For $5000
I think you could buy a dandy used 18 ft aluminum bare utility with a 50 hp tiller outboard.
Lots of room for 4 or more Fast enough to ski with a 100 lb spotter, if you have a place to leave extra folks.
In 1977 a new Crestliner and a new 50 Merc cost me $2500. Maybe you could get just the boat for $5,000 today.

 

[muskyfins]

I'd like to add there are good boats available in the $5k range, but experience and timing are key. Last year my brother found a 1993 bowrider (I forget the make but it may have even been a Sunbird) with a 4.3 merc for $2500. He bought it within an hour of it being listed on CL. Used for a couple weekends and sold to a buddy for a little profit. But important note-belonged to an older gentlemen since new, less than 400 hours, stored in heated meticulously maintained garage, etc. You can tell by the maintenance level of the surroundings who you're dealing with. This was an upscale neighborhood with a finely manicured home/lawn, spotless garage, spotless vehicles. Previous owner had lots of details/documentation, no rust on trailer even. It CAN be done, but you have to work at it.

 

[smassey22180]

There are lots of good $5000 boats on CL. The problem is unless you are familiar with boats motors and trailers, it is tough to make a fast call. If you get lucky you can take the whole rig to get it checked out which I recommend you do next time. Search "marine survey". The best deals on CL sell within a few hours with cash in hand. If you pause, it gets sold to the next guy a few hours later.

My recent 2001 purchase had many issues that I was able to fix myself. Unless you are mechanical you will pay others. Fixes I have made after the purchase include: repair thermostat housing, repair rack and pinion and helm, repair trim sensor wires, replace brake master cylinder, rebuild carb. It can add up fast.

To be safer with future hull rot consider a boat made with XL wood. It is less prone to rot and is available in better boats from around 2000 and up.

 

[bspeth]

Muskeyfins knows how to buy stuff. Our boat was 2300. Everything Ive taken apart so far(a lot) had/has been maintained proper. I would want to see a boat with the drive off before I purchased it.If the leak aint too bad,pull the drive and see if its the bellows.If so fix that and run the s#$% out of it.

 

[Silvertip]

It is not impossible to learn engine electrical and mechanical basics along with outdrive principles if you are willing to read and view videos. I assume you are talking about an I/O so here is my suggestion. It doesn't matter if your boat is powered by a 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder, or V8 engine. Mechanically they all operate the same way. So here is my suggestion. Go to any hobby shop (store front or on-line) and buy what's called a "Visible V8" model engine. It is made with transparent components so can "see" how the internal parts work. Electrical is probably the most difficult to get your head around but again, there are lots of tutorials and reading material available. Your local library generally has a few marine engine service manuals that do a fair job of explaining this stuff. The key is to learn one part of the boat before moving on. As for tools, you do not need a full set of MAC Tools (although that would be nice) just because of the cost. You can buy a full set of screwdrivers (small, medium & large, Phillips and flat blade) for just a few bucks. A socket set that has 3/8 & up sockets, and extension and the ratchet can also be had at various discount stores at reasonable prices. Pliers, putty knives (scrapers), etc., can be purchased as needed. You don't need to amass this collection at once. If you have a project, buy what you need first. If you decide to buy a different (newer) used boat, you still have possibilities of having the same bad experience you had the first time around. Since you are mechanically challenged, take someone with you that does understand what to look for. And when I say that, take someone that truly knows boats, not someone who "thinks" he/she knows boats. Or higher a boat surveyor to check the rig for you. And most of all, always inside on an on-water test. I could go on here but I think you know what you are up against. I also think nearly anyone can learn enough to know how to check and change engine oil, replace spark plugs, and do the basic preventive maintenance a boat requires. I personally would not go on big water with someone who knows absolutely "zip" about their boat. It is plain dangerous. Hate to be blunt in that regard but that's just me. Been down that road as you might guess.

 

[southkogs]

Hi Kerofish ... welcome aboard.

You're getting good advice so far. I agree - the Sunbird is most likely a goner based on your description. I'll add that from my looking this fall, you'll have to be very careful and patient to land a good boat for $5,000. It's not impossible (my boat was considerably cheaper than $5k), but it isn't easy. Add another $2k and in my area it's a little easier to find something. In that level of boat, even finding a good one you'll have to learn a few things about working on 'em.

That said - before you decide to try to fix this one or start looking for the next boat: whaddya' like doing on the boat? Are y'all cruisers, fishers, swimmers, skiers, etc. ... 'toon might suit ya' just fine, but no reason to go down that road if it's not a boat that suits what you like doing.

 

[carey965]

you can find something in the 5000$ range, when i was looking i had a budget up too 10000, looked around dealers, Kijiji (im canadian) friends everywhere

ended up driving by a dealer about 1 hour away from my house found my 1998 tahoe for 5000, now it did need some work (blower was not so great, needed some upholstery work) but because it was at a dealer they did a full check on it, had no rot motor was in great shape and was water ready, dont shy away from dealers i found that everything in the classifieds that was similar was about 3-5 grand more i could not understand it

 

[Willyclay]

My two cents after lots of good advice above, spend a couple hundred more dollars (estimated) and have a licensed marine surveyor inspect your boat before you give up on it based on what the guy at the shop said. IMHO, "inconclusive" leaves the door wide open and you need facts to make a plan. Good luck!

 

[tomhath]

...But important note-belonged to an older gentlemen since new, less than 400 hours, stored in heated meticulously maintained garage, etc. You can tell by the maintenance level of the surroundings who you're dealing with. This was an upscale neighborhood with a finely manicured home/lawn, spotless garage, spotless vehicles. Previous owner had lots of details/documentation, no rust on trailer even. It CAN be done, but you have to work at it.

This is the best advice so far. People tend to be consistent in how they take care of their stuff; if the house/yard/cars are a mess you should assume the boat is too. Also be very wary of recent and inexpensive cosmetic repairs (fresh paint, new carpet, etc). Why did they wait until listing it for sale to take care of what should be routine maintenance? Maybe all it needed was a bit of freshening up, but to me it's a red flag.

Don't feel too bad about the lesson you learned on this boat. How much did it cost you to become a good software engineer? No doubt a lot more than it's costing you to learn about boats. The best way to learn is to keep asking questions.

 

[kerofish1]

Wow, thanks for all the advice! Everyone here is helpful and friendly.

We thought about it over the weekend...we'll go ahead and try to scrap/sell the Sunbird and get a "new" (to us) boat. I guess we'll wrap it up nicely for the winter and list it in the spring as a project boat or a boat for parts.

For some more detail on the winterization and engine...we do have the original OMC Cobra inboard/outboard on the Sunbird. We failed because the engine just wouldn't start. We managed to get a couple gallons of antifreeze sucked into the engine while we were attempting to start it, but that's as far as we got. We couldn't diagnose why it didn't start, so we decided to take it into a shop. They managed to get it running and winterized, so everything turned out okay with that. But that's when they noticed the transom was soft. ("Transom very bad" is the exact wording on the work order!)

With that in mind, we're throwing money into a pontoon boat fund. We never used the Sunbird to ski or tube; we mostly putzed around and fished/swam off it. The consensus around here seems to be that 5k won't get us very far on that front. If we don't find anything decent for that price, we'll wait and keep saving. Anything pontoon-specific that we will have to watch out for? I would think it would be fairly obvious if the pontoons are leaky, or if the floor is soft...but I thought that about our boat, too!

 

[Tnstratofam]

The people here on this site are the best. Straight forward and honest to a fault, but they won't steer you wrong. If there is any silver lining to all this it is that you've found the best place to get info and help on your next boating adventure. Once you've decided on your next craft all I will say is do as much research as possible. Start checking out the resto section as well as any sections or threads related to any boat you look at in the future. The more research you do the better prepared you'll be obviously. Also ask as many questions as you need to. All anybody here wants in my opinion is for others to have the knowledge, and help they need to make boating both fun and safe. Good luck on your next purchase, and remember your not the first to buy a lemon, and you certainly wont be the last. I speak from experience.:facepalm:

 

[Natesms]

With that in mind, we're throwing money into a pontoon boat fund. We never used the Sunbird to ski or tube; we mostly putzed around and fished/swam off it. The consensus around here seems to be that 5k won't get us very far on that front. If we don't find anything decent for that price, we'll wait and keep saving. Anything pontoon-specific that we will have to watch out for? I would think it would be fairly obvious if the pontoons are leaky, or if the floor is soft...but I thought that about our boat, too!

Sounds like a pontoon would work great for you.

Going that route I think you have more options for your $5K budget. I've helped put together 2 pontoons for friends for 5K or less. They are so much easier to deal with because there is no fiberglass! The key with the pontoon is make sure the toons are in good shape and the motor is in great shape.

The floor rot isn't hidden from you either, just walk around and crawl under it, you can see / feel it all. We completely re-decked a pontoon in a weekend. 3 people, 5 sheets of plywood and a few hundred dollars in carpet and a lot of drilling and wrenching on the railings was all it took. It took longer to get the railings off and on than to replace the floor.

Pontoon replacement furniture is also affordable. Many times you can just get it recovered at a local shop as well provided the wood isn't rotting.