maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

[boater1234]

Well i'm sure this has been asked before but most people here have great advice and know what their talking about so i ask you this question?I have a brand new 20hp 4stroke suzuki to start with,i went to my local dealer i have known for over 15yrs to ask him a few questions,i trust him fully but other opinions are great to.I asked him do i really have to get the timing and valves checked on a 4stroke after 20hrs or at all for that matter.This is what i was told.In the past 30yrs we have been here we have had say 10 to 15%of our customers ask us to perform these tests and my exact words were don't waste your money,But some people are paranoid,all you have to do is change the engine oil,filter,check the plugs from time to time,change lower unit oil,grease all fittings and whats needed and change the impeller every 4 to 5 seasons give or take a season.

My biggest concern was the impeller,he said as long as the motor is not sitting around for long periods of time it usually will hold up for many yrs,some times it will hold up for 8-10yrs with no issues but he said for peace of mind 4 to 5 yrs is fine.The main reason it usually gives out is when it sits for long periods of time after you use your motor,it will dry out and harden.

Then i asked about the timing belt,he said they will last for many,many yrs.He said that is like a just keep an eye on it and go from there kind of deal but most belts last a good 10+yrs with no issues.

One more question to all here?Is there really any way to stop saltwater corrosion?I mean is there anything i can flush an outboard with besides fresh water that will prevent the buildup of salt or no matter what it will happen to a point and there is no stopping it.I read things like simply green or vinegar would do the trick,is there anything to this?

Does this sound about right to most of you?I just wanted people to weigh in on what he said.I like hearing other opinions.Thanks.

 

[tazrig]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

Well i'm sure this has been asked before but most people here have great advice and know what their talking about so i ask you this question?I have a brand new 20hp 4stroke suzuki to start with,i went to my local dealer i have known for over 15yrs to ask him a few questions,i trust him fully but other opinions are great to.I asked him do i really have to get the timing and valves checked on a 4stroke after 20hrs or at all for that matter.This is what i was told.In the past 30yrs we have been here we have had say 10 to 15%of our customers ask us to perform these tests and my exact words were don't waste your money,But some people are paranoid,all you have to do is change the engine oil,filter,check the plugs from time to time,change lower unit oil,grease all fittings and whats needed and change the impeller every 4 to 5 seasons give or take a season.

My biggest concern was the impeller,he said as long as the motor is not sitting around for long periods of time it usually will hold up for many yrs,some times it will hold up for 8-10yrs with no issues but he said for peace of mind 4 to 5 yrs is fine.The main reason it usually gives out is when it sits for long periods of time after you use your motor,it will dry out and harden.

Then i asked about the timing belt,he said they will last for many,many yrs.He said that is like a just keep an eye on it and go from there kind of deal but most belts last a good 10+yrs with no issues.

One more question to all here?Is there really any way to stop saltwater corrosion?I mean is there anything i can flush an outboard with besides fresh water that will prevent the buildup of salt or no matter what it will happen to a point and there is no stopping it.I read things like simply green or vinegar would do the trick,is there anything to this?

Does this sound about right to most of you?I just wanted people to weigh in on what he said.I like hearing other opinions.Thanks.

Do exactly what your manual tells you to do at least until your warranty is over. Then do what you want. Your dealer seems to be telling you how long things usually last. There are boaters that use their engines until something breaks and THEN bring it in to be fixed (and miss valuable time on the water) and there are those who replace things on a regular schedule (such as the manual suggests or sooner). This is called preventative maintenance and those people rarely if ever break down. Which kind of owner do you want to be?

I would recommend following the manual so if your engine craps out it will be covered under warranty. Then replace parts at 50-75% of what your dealer is telling you and don't worry about it. You should replace the impeller every other year regardless. If you don't you are just rolling the dice that it will partially or completely disintegrate on you and you or the dealer will have to tear the motor apart looking for all the little pieces and potentially deal with structural problems from an overheat. Change the gear oil once a year in the fall or whenever you stop using the boat for the season. This removes the contaminates from the lower unit, again with less chance for wear and problems down the line.

As far as salt water corrosion goes. Replace your anodes When they start to look worn or minimally once a year in the spring and flush your engine every time you remove the boat from the water with fresh water on muffs. Get it up to temperature and then 5+ minutes longer. That will dissolve salt on the inside. When done hit the motor with a hose and maybe a little soapy water (absolutely no need for any harsh chemicals) to get rid of the salt on the outside. Boat motors are designed to be used in the salt water environment and with just a little TLC will last for many years.

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

According to my own experience and I'm a 10 minute water flusher maniac every time my engine is used on a all year regular basis, no matter what you do, engine will always form microscopic thin salt layers one on top of the other due to warm/cool engine temperature fluctuation issues multiplied by N number of time on restarts, runs and engine shut off. In a future when all OB's uses green cryptonite as in cars will have a perfect inmaculate internal clean water paths...

That's why is good every 300-500 worked hours, will depend on each manufacturer, to remove cylinder head and mechanically remove al salt layers for engine to work at same temp condition as when it was initially installed from new. It's not the same an engine used all year round to same used just on summers. The first will form more salt on it's cooling water passages than the latter.

Happy Boating

 

[boater1234]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

Tazrig all good points but that doesn't answer some of my questions because by the time i need to do any of the stuff i'm talking about other then oil related issues it will be out of warranty.According to the manual it says to change the impeller every 4yrs and just inspect the timing belt and plugs other then the oil issues.I figured that was about right on the impeller,4-5yrs,so he was right.I found it in my manual today.

When i new nothing about maintenance when i bought my first new outboard (9.8 2stroke tohatsu),20+yrs ago i never once changed the impeller and my motor peed just as strong as the day i bought it,i had that motor for over 7yrs and never did anything to it except plugs, lower unit oil and spray the powerhead and the rest of the motor down with a lubricant and it was perfect for 7yrs,still running today as i know who has it.So i think the 1 to 2 season theory of changing the water impeller is to much.They have to last longer then that i would think.I will stick to the 4yr thing as the manual says.

 

[boater1234]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

I also know how to do some of the maintenance but i have no idea how to check the valves and the timing and i called my dealer to see what the cost is,his reply was we will do it if you want but i ashore you that you are just wasting money,so i said ok lets skip that part.I don't have money to waste if this really doesn't need to be done.He told me how many times do you get a new cars valves adjusted or checked,or check the timing?0,well i guess that makes sense because i never had that done in all the new cars i have ever owned.

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

Some clarifications,

All impeller brands does not last same, best are Tohatsu and their rebranded brands impellers, mostly due because the material used is not plain rubber as in all mayor brands. The best way to kill any other brand's impelller is to keep impeller sitting for long time periods in same internal liner/cup position. To understand, impellers sits inside cups which are eliptical shaped not perrfect round as one would imagine, when at rest impeller vanes will be extended and compressed at same time.

The compressed part will harden compressed in that position if siting for long time periods, that's why flywheel must be rotated by pulling rope, electric starts once in a while, at least once per month to maintain perfect impeller flexible vanes shape That's if you want Long Live the Impeller. Usually change my impeller each 600 metered worked hours, when taken out is still in great expanded condition.

A hardened sitting too long inside a cup impeller will deliver less pressure than an inmaculate new one in which all impelller vanes are vey flexible. Impeller interval change and cost will depend entirely if doing the service work by yourself or in need to have it done at a work shop.

With respect to valves, they do last long as to check valve clearances if compared to a motorcycle, car extended use. Most now a days cars have hydraulic train valves which does not requiere checking valve clearances at all.

Happy Boating

 

[boater1234]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

So what your saying it's much better to use your outboard as much as possible so the impeller stays in great shape.My outboard has been sitting for about a mth because i have been so sick,flu like issue.I started the motor for like 10min like it says in the manual but i haven't used it since.I just got some antibiotics so i hope to feel better soon,i am so ready to make this motor work.I know most people laugh when they here cold fronts in fl because most of the country is covered in snow,lol,but it has been down right cold for fl,it's been in the 40's and low 50's for hi's and in the hi 20's and 30's for lows,that's cold for our area.I love every minute of it,i sweat like a pig in the summer so this is like a vacation from the heat,lol.


I hope to get on the water very soon and i'm going to run this motor 3 to 5 days a week,i hope to get thousands of trouble free hrs out of this outboard.If for some reason i don't like this outboard because this is my first 4stroke or i don't like the way it runs then i will sell it or get the second choice i wanted which is a 20hp 4stroke merc or try to find a as new as possible 25hp 2stroke yamaha which is readily available all over.From what i have seen on many youtube videos this motor has some serious pep and great torque out of the hole.Top end seems to be awesome for the type of boat i have,it's just a 185lb 1436 jon boat so i can't see how this motor won't make my boat just get it,fly like the wind.I understand i must put some hrs on it to really judge how it will run,i know it will be a bit rough running in the beginning as everything needs to fully breakin and mesh tog.I fig by 25 to 50hrs is where i can judge if i want to keep it long term or not.I want to eventually jump up to a 1442 G3 or 1542 alumacraft new jon boat,i don't know for sure if this motor will push a boat like that as good as this but i have been told the wider the floor is on a jon boat the better it will plane and the faster it will run.A new 1442 or 1542 is only like 30-40lbs heavier then the boat i have now so i would think i could still get in the hi 20's for speed.

I'm going to do some tests on this motor,with the 10pitch standard prop and then with the 11pitch prop i just bought,i want to do wot runs for speed and how long it takes to plane and all other stuff,as soon as i feel better i will post it all just in case people want to know how this motor performs.

 

[tazrig]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

Tazrig all good points but that doesn't answer some of my questions because by the time i need to do any of the stuff i'm talking about other then oil related issues it will be out of warranty.According to the manual it says to change the impeller every 4yrs and just inspect the timing belt and plugs other then the oil issues.I figured that was about right on the impeller,4-5yrs,so he was right.I found it in my manual today.

When i new nothing about maintenance when i bought my first new outboard (9.8 2stroke tohatsu),20+yrs ago i never once changed the impeller and my motor peed just as strong as the day i bought it,i had that motor for over 7yrs and never did anything to it except plugs, lower unit oil and spray the powerhead and the rest of the motor down with a lubricant and it was perfect for 7yrs,still running today as i know who has it.So i think the 1 to 2 season theory of changing the water impeller is to much.They have to last longer then that i would think.I will stick to the 4yr thing as the manual says.

As I mentioned earlier go by the manual first. 4 - 5 years on an impeller seems like a lot but they may be of a different material as stated by Sea Rider. If you got 20 years out of an impeller you would be the first I've heard of. I'm not saying you didn't just the prevailing wisdom is every other year along with checking and pressure testing the lower unit. Preventative maintenance is about replacing things before they have a chance to break. For instance if you know the impeller is supposed to go 4-5 years do you let it go that long and wonder on the 4th or fifth year if it is going to make it through that year or do you replace it in year 2-3 and never have to worry about it? There is a difference between car engines and boat engines that you should note. Where car engines are sometimes under load and sometimes coasting, boat engines are always under load (usually a heavy one). They therefore wear out sooner and need to be adjusted more often. What the manual says about timing belt and plugs sounds about right. Keep in mind though your plugs will wear out sooner than than you think as they are always under load. I currently have twin I/O's so we are talking about something a little different here. On my last set of engines I always changed plugs, wires, oil, impellers etc. before the recommended time changes. All I can tell you is that in 22 years I never had so much as a single break down.

 

[boater1234]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

No you must of misunderstood me on the impeller,i had my 9.8hp tohatsu from like 2001 to 2008 and sold it,i'm sure the guy who bought it from me put a new one in or had it done by someone.I know they won't last 20yrs.That would prob be a record,lol.As far as plugs it says to just inspect plugs and use my judgement if they need changing but to my knowledge the plugs from what i read should last 5-10yrs.As far as the timing and valves i'm not going to worry about that.I called another marina today and they told me the same thing,it's a waste of money,he said the number of motors that need the timing worked on as well as the valves is like 1 out of every 1000 motors if not more.I will stick to that,i'm not worried about it.All i'm going to do is change the engine oil+filter,lower unit oil,inspect the plugs every yr or 2,change the impeller every 2-3yrs,check the timing belt out for wear and cracks every few yrs and use my motor like i stole it,lol.I put a silicone spray on the powerhead and the entire motor after every use and flush the outboard with fresh water for 5min.I believe that's good enough to keep it running for i hope thousands or trouble free hrs.Plus i use ring free from yamaha as well as i believe to be the best stabilizer in the business(K100),This stuff is the best i have ever used to stabilize gas and it will work in any engine.I use it in my truck,outboard and lawnmower,works awesome.Ive tried stabil,stabil marine,startron,you name it i tried it and to me the K100 is by far the best.

 

[JimS123]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

You should worry a lot when a marina advises against maintenance that is recommended in an owner's manual. He's a guy that I personally would stay away from. If you like the guy that's your perogative.

I live in a big boating market and the majority of the dealers don't know what they are talking about. Darn few that would get my business - they are staffed by kids and the owners have little practical experience. But I digress.... that's yet another discussion...

One dealer that I DO frequent has been in the bizness since 1946 and the current mechanics are the son and grandson. He has been a Yami dealer since they first came in the US. He DOES recommend doing the valve stuff and all that other waste-of-money nonsense. His opinion I would trust.

For most boaters its a moot point anyway, since they don't keep the darn thing more than a few (or 7) years. That's why buying a used motor is not always a good idea.

Oh, and about that 20 year impeller myth.....
When I was a kid I inherited Grandpa's 1955 Merc. Back then I never even heard of an impeller. Anyways, not knowing any better I NEVER changed it. I sold it after 23 years service and she was still pumping very well with the original one. As a second example, I currently own a 1984 'Rude and it has the original impeller as well. Now, I DO know better and I admit to being lax, but she only putts around on a pond and if need be I can row back. For the math challenged that's 30 years on the original rubber! (That's not a recommendation, just a statement of fact)

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

I've been on both sides of this.

1. Impeller. Yes, I've run an impeller for 10 years or more. Probably not smart but I've done it.
2. Timing belt. That's a relatively new phenom for the outboard market. You ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT to have one break!
3. Valve Adjustment. Same as above. Think about this one. If the valves are mechanical and do not have hydraulic adjusters, they will lose some efficiency as they wear in. Will you notice it? Maybe not.

With all that said, I change impellers every two years. Why? I live in a very HOT climate and the extreme heat tends to weather check them when they are not being used. The same goes for timing belts. After two years, my ancient Honda 7.5 belt looks very cracked on the underside.

I would at least look at the belt every year. Any cracks? It's GOT TO GO!

 

[boater1234]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

Jim i get what your saying about dealers not knowing anything on outboards but on this i will disagree.These are the same techs that have been here since it opened over 25yrs ago.They are 40-50yr old men not kids.They have been one of the best marinas around my area for a long time and for only one reason,their honest,fair and good at what they do.I believe every word they tell me.I just did a search on it yesterday and i didn't realize how much information there is on this.90%of the information was that it was wasted money(as far as valve adjustments and checking the timing).The few people they did get them checked said the dealers told them the valves were fine and needed no adjustment,that will be $250-$300 have a nice day.In the next post most of them realized what a waste of money it was.

According to all the info i have read so far which is hundreds of posts on multi dif forums,it was either a waste of money after it was done,most of them said what my dealer said,just keep the oil clean,change the filter,lower unit oil,grease the fittings and check the plugs,and belt,also to change the impeller at least every 3-4 yrs and your motor will run a long time with no issues.Thats good enough for me.

 

[JimS123]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

With a dealer like yours that can walk on water, why even bother to ask an internet forum filled with people that don't know as much?

 

[boater1234]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

If you read my first post you wouldn't ask that question.I asked for peoples opinions on the subject thats all.I never said anyone was smarter then anyone else.Just because my dealer knows a lot does not mean i don't value the opinions of people here.Dealers don't know everything but i bet they have worked on a few motors here and there so i also value what my local dealer told me to.They have never steered me wrong.I have read on here from one source that says you should check it but almost everyone doesn't,he also followed to say maybe 1 out of 1000 may need an adjustment,that's pretty slim odds.That is on this site and i value his opinion as well as he is a tech.

 

[JimS123]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

There you go...that's my point. I'm a one-in-a-thousand kinda guy. It would just be my luck to get that ONE that needed adjustment. My opinion is that if you follow the manual you can't go wrong. But then again, I buy new and keep them almost forever. A guy should look at his own personal history. If its likely that it'll be sold before too many years, then why bother? If you don't abuse it, maybe it doesn't matter either. If its abused with a lot of WOT in salt water, wellll, then I'd be more cautious.

I change impellers and fuel filters by the book as well. I inspect them and cut them open and I'm always disappoited because I always find they didnt need to be replaced and I wasted the money. A few bucks....eeh. Piece of mind....priceless.

 

[belray]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

Wow, it's been hard to make it to the bottom of this thread without loosing it. You already have your mind made up, you have complete trust in you dealership and the techs there, but you ask for everyone's opinion and when they give it, you proceed to tell everyone they are wrong and why. Look, here's the bottom line. It's YOUR brand new engine. You paid for it. If you don't want to pay for the valves to be checked then don't. If you want to run this engine for 20 years on the same oil, same impeller, same plugs, same everything then do it. For that matter, if you want to unbolt the thing and drop it in the lake then do that. If you ask 10 people the same question then you are likely to get 10 different answers. I've been reading this board for about 6 months and there are some really smart guys here. I don't know boats that well yet but I can tell who knows their stuff and who the yahoo's are.

 

[boater1234]

Re: maintenance questions on a 4stroke outboard

What are you talking about,you obviously didn't read any of this thread.Maybe you need to read a bit more carefully before saying something that is untrue.I never once said anyone was wrong,i never once said i run oil for 20yrs or change plugs or whatever you said that didn't make a whole bit of sense.I said i trust my dealer because they have never steered me wrong,that doesn't mean i don't value what other people say on here.I have got some really good info on here as well as my dealer and a lot of what people here say is what my dealer has also told me.I have listened to many people here and they have helped me,i have never once said my dealer was smarter,the only thing i said is they have been in business for many yrs,probably one of the only trust worthy dealers in my area,they have cut me some amazing deals on repair,Plus he was explaining to me what the average length of time things usually last,he never once told me not to do what was in my manual.I'm new to the 4stroke world so i wanted opinions,opinions are what other people think and if they know some facts that's great to.I know how to do some things,the basics,but that has all been on a 2stroke which is a different animal.Please read things before you say untrue statements.