Marina bankruptcy

[Tom P]

I normally dock my boat in a marina in Greenwood Lake, NY. This year Greenwood Lake had a draw down. 5-6 feet of water was let out of the lake over the winter to reduce the weed level over the winter. The snow and rain was suppose to refill the lake. Well, we didn?t get any snow and now the lake is down 6 feet. None of the marina?s have docks in the lake. There?s rumor that some of the marinas may be forced into bankruptcy.

My question is: What happens when a marina goes out of business to the boat that are in the possession of the marina either docked their or in storage there? Has anyone experienced their marina going under? I?m just a little spooked about having my boat there at this point.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

I had something similar happen to a dealership that went under. I ended up going 'around' the fence and just removed my boat. (yes, actually did go around, the fence didn't go completely around the property.) I ended up getting a halfway nasty call from the police investigator questioning what happened to my boat. (he obviously knew I had it...) Nothing ever came of it, but it could have gotten ugly... No work had been done on my boat, (with documented proof nothing had been done), so I really didn't have much to worry about.

Does the marina have a shop of any sort? If they don't have a shop, there isn't much to worry about. The problem is for accounts receivable, basically anything outstanding that people may owe, which becomes very relevant in a bankruptcy. A marina without a shop wouldn't really have any, but one with a shop... They have no idea who's boat was there for storage, and who's may have had work done on it. They could hold possession of the boat until all the dust settles, which could be a LONG time.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

Has happened quite a few times in the last few years.

In some cases, the courts moved very fast (a few weeks ) to confirm ownership of the boats, and allow removal.
In other cases, boats were locked up for quite a while.

Worst one I heard of was down in ILL. The boats were locked up and winter was coming, they needed to be winterized.
Shop was closed, some boats may have been winterized, but no one really knew. Records were a mess, debtors wanted to secure the boats as assets. Apparently some hotshots convinced the courts that time was of the essence, and the finally allowed the boats to be inventoried and removed, but not sold without permission.

If you are feeling "spooked", get it out of there. It doesn't sound like you will be boating there this year anyway.

 

[oops!]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

get your boat out now.

in canada.....this gets messy.....really messy

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Marina bankruptcy

you're better off if the marina files bankruptcy b/c there will be someone in charge; the worst is when they close and the bank shuts them down and no one is around to make decisions. In either case, if you own the boat, they don't, and you get your boat back. You will have to show the person in charge that it is your boat, and pay any outstanding repair or storage charges, so be ready to show what that might be.
If you have to pay a month's slip fee to get it out, do it and don't look back. If you have a contract/lease that hasn't expired, it shouldn't be a problem if they are closed; you can't pull out if they file bankruptcy but keep operating, at least not right at the beginning. There is a process in bankruptcy for dealing with leases, too complicated to go into here. And if they file and stay open, pulling out might not be the best option. You have to stay on top of the case from the beginning, and be ready to protect yourself.

Boats in the middle of repair are a real problem. Think twice before getting in some if a company is on the verge. But don't assume they are. Also boats up on a rack may be difficult; you may have to pay to get it down.
The last thing a repossessing bank or bankruptcy trustee wants is other people's boats on the property. Leverage that to your advantage.

A bankruptcy filing, like music by Wagner, is not as bad as it sounds (ref. Mark Twain).

Just don't get your legal advice here, and never listen to what someone else did somewhere else for guidance as to what you should do. But learn from this statement "Apparently some hotshots convinced the courts ..." and hire yourself a hotshot. There are ways that a group of creditors in the same boat can join up with just one lawyer and spread the cost.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

go get your boat this morning and avoid the hassle.

 

[Maxum21]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

sorry to hear about the situation.. i was up at the lake few months ago and wondering why it was so low. If i were you i would get the boat out today! I feel bad for the marinas, property owners and boat owners that cant use the lake

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Marina bankruptcy

so just like a run on the banks, if everyone panics on rumor and pulls their boats out, the marina's will certainly fail, fall into disrepair, and where will you be when the water returns? looking through the fence at a condo development where you used to keep your boat and have access to the lake.

remember this is all we have: "There’s rumor that some of the marinas may be forced into bankruptcy." And I know this from professional experience: banks do not want to take back a marina. Foreclosure is less likely for a marina than for other real estate loans like apartments, warehouses and hotels.

And before you yank your boat, be sure you know the terms of your lease and the consequences of breaching it before the term expires. Maybe that's how the marina's will survive--revenues from breach of contract suits.

 

[shrew]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

If you or your bank own the title to your vessel, I don't see how or why the marina's bank would attempt to reposses your boat. If the marina owned the boat that would be one thing. If you owed the marina a significant amount of debt, that would be another. Locking access to the grounds is one thing. In many cases the debtors and the court are simply taking the time to determine what is on the premises that is owned by the marina, and what is owned by other people. They are simpoly ensuring that property owned by the marina is not being taken off of marina property. In the case of improper paperwork it may take time to determine what is owned by the marina and what is not. Let's make sure we're clear on the concepts of possesion and ownership, which are mutually exclusive topics.

(Please don't throw out that old adage "possession in 9/10th of the law", that is the most misunderstood and misused statement ever. It means 90% of laws are written to address concepts of 'possesion', NOT that 'he who possesses is 9/10th in the right).

 

[gtochris]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

I had no idea Greenwood Lake was SO low! My parents bought a Regal new up there in 1993... Lake Hopatcong is still 1.5 feet down, not good, but I'm going to try and shoe horn my boat in this week.....

Lake Hopatcong does their 5 year/ 5 foot drawdown for 2013 I'm told, gawd, I hope if they follow through we get a good rain/ snow dumping!

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

If you or your bank own the title to your vessel, I don't see how or why the marina's bank would attempt to reposses your boat. If the marina owned the boat that would be one thing.

Easy... Either through a paperwork screwup or blatent false statements, someone thinks that there was $10,000 of work done on your $8,000 boat. Instant mechanics lien, and a year without your boat as the courts figure out what is up.

 

[Tom P]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

so just like a run on the banks, if everyone panics on rumor and pulls their boats out, the marina's will certainly fail, fall into disrepair, and where will you be when the water returns? looking through the fence at a condo development where you used to keep your boat and have access to the lake.

remember this is all we have: "There?s rumor that some of the marinas may be forced into bankruptcy." And I know this from professional experience: banks do not want to take back a marina. Foreclosure is less likely for a marina than for other real estate loans like apartments, warehouses and hotels.

And before you yank your boat, be sure you know the terms of your lease and the consequences of breaching it before the term expires. Maybe that's how the marina's will survive--revenues from breach of contract suits.

I'm inclined to agree. I don't keep my boat at the marina over the winter and I have free summer storage (Thank Mom & Dad). So the boat isn't there now. If they never open, the choice isn't mine. I had a boat down at the Jersey shore and the lease did have things in it that stated that if you pulled your boat for more than a couple of days, regardless of paying for the whole season, they could re-lease your slip. I just figured that was because a half empty marina, just did look good and was bad for business.

As I mentioned, as of now, nobody at Greenwood Lake has slips in. My worry is that we get 3 feet of water. Then there will be enough water to put the slips in and enough water for some of the smaller boats. I have a 21 foot walkaround. I really need a minimum of 5 feet more of water to do this safely. As of now, I just don't see it happening.

Thanks again all,

Tom

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

... I have a 21 foot walkaround. I really need a minimum of 5 feet more of water to do this safely. As of now, I just don't see it happening.

That's what the guy across the street from Noah kept saying! :facepalm:

 

[BuckyBadger]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

I went through this two years ago and it is just a big aggravation. In our case the customers weren't informed of anything until all the dust had settled. A lot of what has been stated in the previous posts (these iboaters sometimes do know what they are talking about) was exactly how it happened to us. First it needed to be determined if it is a bankruptcy or foreclosure, and the speed at which that happens is a big variable. A group of boat owners from our marina hired a lawyer to protect the customers interests. How much that helped I don't know, but it did get pushed through the courts in about two weeks. Ours was a little more complicated as the marina was part of a boat manufacturer and it still happened relatively quickly.

I was never worried about losing the boat, but I was concerned about how soon I would get access to it. Ours happened at the same time of the year, right when you're gearing up for the season. I wonder if that is a coincidence or why it happens right before the start of the season.

All in all I would say I wouldn't worry about 'losing' your boat, but if you do sense that it is going to drag out and you have access to your boat then by all means I would just go and get it. Again, for me just being kept in the dark through the entire process was extremely frustrating.

I would also add that I would not act just on a rumor, but if it looks like it is heading that way just a little to think about.

Good luck, and hopefully you won't have to deal with it.

 

[skills]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

Just another perspective:
If you are trusting a multi-thousand (or more)dollar boat to the marina's care, why not directly ask the manager/owner what is going on? If you can't trust him to answer that question truthfully, why would you trust him with the care and storage of your boat?

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

Well personaly if i had any doubt first thing I would do is pull my boat. and that wont hurt the marina if the slip rent is all ready paid.

 

[Tom P]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

We'll a month has passed since I've started this thread. Greenwood Lake has had 3.5" of rain for the month. I was up at the lake about 2 weeks ago kayaking and fishing. The water level was up about a foot. But still down 2-3 feet from the minimum. The fishing was great. I lost count of how many I caught. I saw 3 or 4 jon boats on the water. 1 Ranger boat, and a pontoon boat in a personal dock. The ranger got stuck fir about 20-30 min on a sand bar. But he did catch a 4-5 foot muskie.

I'm heading up to the lake this weekend, over the long weekend, to take another look. There was a webcam on the lake. But it's been shutdown for the month. So Thomas will need to see for himself. Will report back.

Thanks again,

Tom

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Marina bankruptcy

glad it's worked out so far with the marina. Have fun!

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

I am really glad things are working out.

 

[Tom P]

Re: Marina bankruptcy

Well I just wanted to do a final follow up on this. Labor day weekend most of the marinas put their slips in. The water level was deep enough at most of the marinas for the lighter 16-18 foot boats. By 2 weeks after labor day the water level was passable. it's currently 6" below normal but deep enough for all to do what they want. Marina owners have been giving a 20% discount on slips for the lost time. My marina is about half full. The economic effects of this will most likely(hopfully) take a year or two to recover. With a quater of the season lost I opted to stick to kayaking. One look at the my marina owner and I can tell he's not happy with me. But I can't pull the plug on the summer for a family of 4 because now there's water in the lake. Summer plans needed to be made in May. The fishing has been great. Kayaking has opened a whole new world of boating for me.

Thanks again to all who replied,

Tom