Martin Outboard parts

[asdasc]

Hi All,

I am just wondering if anyone has found a common Johnson ignition part that would replace those on a Martin 40. The original parts are only available from one source that I have found, and are significantly more money than for an old Johnson. I think the easiest to replace would be the condensor. It is a stand-up screw top.

The coils ohm'd out good.

The condenser is a WICO X5463 and the coils are WICO X5460. I don't have the part number off the points yet.

Thanks,

 

[F_R]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

I suppose you tried Russ Larsen? http://www.martinoutboards.com/pricelist.htm

 

[steelespike]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

Hi All,

I am just wondering if anyone has found a common Johnson ignition part that would replace those on a Martin 40. The original parts are only available from one source that I have found, and are significantly more money than for an old Johnson. I think the easiest to replace would be the condensor. It is a stand-up screw top.

The coils ohm'd out good.

The condenser is a WICO X5463 and the coils are WICO X5460. I don't have the part number off the points yet.

Thanks,

Years ago I installed omc coils on a Martins armatures.It was about 30 years ago and I think I did the Martin and a Merc.Didn't solve my problem(was flywheel related)Did run on both cylinders.

 

[asdasc]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

I suppose you tried Russ Larsen? http://www.martinoutboards.com/pricelist.htm

Yep, that is the place...

I was trying to do things a little cheaper. I wish there was a better way to test these componants, rather than just replacing everything. Points, Condensors, coils, carb kit, and impeller will run up to about $170. Also, the dang flywheel magnets look like they rubbed at one time and don't feel so strong, but I haven't checked another motor to compare it to, yet. You can see in the picture that it looks like the coils rubbed the flywheel, but there is no adjustment in the design so I am not sure if that mark is from the way they make them or not.

Points ohm out ok after I cleaned them up. Coils ohm out ok. Don't know how to test the condensers. No significant spark on either cyl. Using a spark gap tester, I get an occassional yellow spark at small gaps of may just under an eighth inch, but no where near a blue spark at 1/4 inch.

 

[F_R]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

It would be very rare to find one of those orange shellaced Wico coils that is bad.
asdasc, have you disassembled the points and cleaned them individually? They don't look so bad in the picture.
To answer your original question, Johnson never used Wico ignition.

 

[asdasc]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

Hi FR, that type of general knowledge on the coils is priceless to me, so thank you. That combined with the fact that they ohm out OK allows me to focus on the other componants. Generally on my Johnson 18, I just would routinely replace the points and condensors if I had the flywheel off since they are so cheap, so I don't know too much about trouble shooting them.

The points do clean up pretty well, I touched the contacting surface with a file and noticed that there is an off center 'wear mark' that almost looks like there is a plating that has worn off. Does anyone know if the contacts are plated or are they just a solid pellet of something? Do I have to worry about the discoloration? With a little bending and adjusting, I think I can get the mating surfaced to better line up squarely, so can probably re-use those. As a quick test yesterday I just cleaned everything up good and readjusted things to see if that helped. It didn't.

Today I will re-pull the flywheel and see if I can make some relative assessment of the magnet strength. If that checks out good I will order some condensors and give it a go, unless someone knows how to test them. I think they are just big capacitors, right? If so, I have a capacitance meter at work I think. Anyone know what value it should be?

Thanks again for all the help,

 

[ohm116]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

They well be high voltage but I doubt they well be very high in capacitance as they have to discharge at a high rate of speed.

 

[F_R]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

I don't have the Wico condenser specs, but around 0.2 ohms is in the ballpark. Don't expect to get OMC spark out of it. It'll run with 1/8". Magnets don't go bad in motors made after WWII. Wico coils go with the armature plate--you can't swap them around or with another plate or they may rub. They were assembled to the plate, then ground to size. If they are back in the original position they should be OK.

I knew something looked funny when I typed that. Of course it should say 0.2 mfd, not ohms. Duh...

 

[asdasc]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

Thanks FR, that clears up a lot. I can see where the coils and plate would be sold as a set.

I found some info on the web about testing condensors. I plan to try it and will report back with how I did it if it works.

I was getting intermittant spark at about 1/16th inch, and nothing beyond that. We did get it to run a little bit, but it would never stay running more than a half minute, and it was rough.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

Somewhere on the web, in a search return page titled "testing condensors" is a diagram that shows how to connect a condensor in series to a AA battery and flashlight bulb. Whether the bulb stays lit or flashes tells the health of the condensor/capacitor. Must be in my print-outs somewhere, not finding it on the 'puter.

 

[asdasc]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

The test I read was to discharge the cap by shorting the two terminals, then attach the ground lead to the black lead and the red lead to the top of the condensor while the meter is set on 200 ohm range. You should see it go from infinate down to some low ohm range and back up to infinate.

My condensors stayed at infinate, so I am thinking they are bad. Does that make sense?

 

[F_R]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

It does make sense, but it is a fairly unreliable test. A lot depends on your ohmmeter. Actually, the cheap analog ones work best for this test. The meter deflection occurs as the inrush of current from the battery in the meter charges the condenser and returns toward infinity as it becomes charged. It probably won't go clear to infinity. The high resistance represents leakage in the capacitor. Try it on several higher ranges. And keep your fingers off of it and the test probes while you do it because the electricity leaks off through your body.

 

[asdasc]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

Yeah, my analog meter only has Kohm range. I will try it. I used the digital one because it had the 200 ohm range. It would be great if someone with a good analog meter could run this test and video tape it for Utube like Mr Penn did with testing the coils. That was very helpful.

I had a long and enjoyable chat with Russ Larson last night. Very nice guy and quite helpful. He agreed that probably the coils and points were fine and to focus on the condensers, initially. I ordered up just under $50 in parts - condensers, plug wire, carb gasket set and impeller kit.

He also set me straight on the lower unit. I didn't realize that it is filled with grease, not 90 weight oil. He reccommended John Deere Corn Head Grease from a tractor supply place. Also told me that the plugs are Champion J8C gapped to .032 and mix the oil/gas to 16:1 or even 12:1.

I am working on this with my dad, and he laughed at the J8C's saying those are the same plugs he uses in his Kaiser Deluxe! Must have been pretty popular back then.

 

[F_R]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

Kaiser!!!!. Haven't heard that name for awhile. Yeah, J-8 plugs were used in a ton of different things, like lawn mowers.

 

[asdasc]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

Yeah, he just sold the '53 Dragon but he still has the Deluxe. Apparently I got the bug from my dad to keep old motors running. I really enjoy it, and enjoy working on them with my dad. I am no longer a kid, either, but am blessed with a wife who allows me to take apart outboards in the sun room next to the pool table and live close enough to my dad to allow him to come over during lunch to work on them. It gets us thru the long, cold winters.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

Unless they raise corn/sorghum in your part of the world, the staff at the tractor supply house won't know what corn head grease is...or what it's really made for. If you can't find that, use Lubriplate 105 white engine assembly grease...most true auto stores have it. Both are excellent choices for LU's on direct drive outboards.

 

[asdasc]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

OK, thanks. That should be easy enough to find around here. I live 'close' to the corn belt.

 

[asdasc]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

So while I have the parts on order, I have been curious how these famous Martin Poppet Valves work. Of course, I had to take a look. The pictures sort of tell the whole story, but it is pretty interesting. The valves are between the crank case and the carburator. The springs are on the top and are held in place by the carb mount cover. The valves are driven by small cam lobes ground directly on the crankshaft.

Note in the photo that while focusing on getting everything held in place so you can see how the springs mount and are held in there, I neglected to notice that the carb was being held upside down. If you can ignore that glaring error, I think the rest is pretty neat.

 

[ohm116]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

Well that's one way to make a simple engine overly complex Probably better then the read valves in my Gale though.

 

[asdasc]

Re: Martin Outboard parts

I was actually surprised at how simple it was. The valves themselves were the only added moving part, and it replaced the moving reeds.

A very compact design that looks like it could have been quite cheap to manufacture. I haven't run it enough to see what the performance is like, or if it feels different. Can't wait until a lake thaws!