Milky L/U fluid

[stevenhickeys]

Hello,

I picked up a 74' Starcraft American 20 with a Mercruiser 165 with I believe a type I out-drive. The motor runs sweet and the O/D shifts with out any problem.

I drained the L/U fluid last night and discovered it had some water in it and it was very milky.:facepalm: The previous owner said the boat has not been in the water for @ 7 years.

I would assume the seals need the be changed in the L/U.

My question is:

#1 is this a job I could do myself or should I take it to a shop?
#2 Should I remove the L/U for the winter or should I fill it with fresh oil and tackle the job in the spring?
#3 Other than the L/U, is there any other areas that water can leak into the unit to contaminate the oil?

Thanks in advance for any help.

SH

 

[alldodge]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

You may be able to disassemble and reassemble the drive but your skill level is unknown. There is also several special tools needed which some cost quite a bit. Suggest take the drive to a shop and have them disassemble now and inspect. Tell the shop if it's going to cost more then a new SEI drive to stop. Waiting until spring will allow whatever moisture is in the drive to possibly cause more damage.

There are no other areas other then drive seals which can allow water to enter the drive.

 

[ziggy]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

disassembling and assembling a drive takes special mercruiser only tools. they're expensive.
imho i'd start with a pressure test. maybe see if ya can find where it leaks at.
surely water in the drive for 7 years would inspire rust somewhere. like on the upper gears and brgs. ya could take the top cap off and get an initial inspection of a couple of the gears and couple of the brgs.
if ya dissemble it, yer gonna need a mercruiser service manual. it will be a must have item if there's any hope of doing it proper.
again, i'd start with a pressure test. i do this every time my drive gear lub is drained. every time the drive is disassembled it should be pressure tested again prior to fulling with gear lub.
good luck.

 

[84EdH]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

What do you mean by L/U? Is that the lower unit? If so, the drive oil is in both the upper and lower unit, as well as the water mixed in.
Question #2 from above: should you remove or tackle in spring? I would work on it now as I would rather be boating than fixing next spring. I would also check out all the regular maintenance items when the drive is pulled. bellows, gimble bearing, u-joints, water pump, alignment etc. not being in the water for 7 years would tell me I need to go over the whole boat and check for corroded electrical connections, grease everything, look for loose bolts, the whole lot.

go to the top of this forum and read from the adults only section on maintenance, repair etc. most people would tell you that for a boat (and car), sitting, for 7 years is worse than being used.

if you start now, you'll be fishing in April instead of wrenching

 

[stevenhickeys]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

The words "special tools" do not excite me.

I know a merc mechanic that would probably do the seal job this winter when things get slow. I guess I could even look at trading my L/U in for a reconditioned one as long as it could pass a pressure test.

Any idea what this little project might end up costing me??

SH

 

[84EdH]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

All Dodge told you above the drive has to be disassembled and inspected for damage. Water in your oil for 7 years could have ruined bearings. The seals repair is the least of it. So, check the price of a new SEI drive so you know what a new drive would run, then ask the marine mechanic what he will charge to take the drive apart and inspect for possible water damage and seal replacements. The new SEI drive is in the neighborhood of $1200 to $1300. If the guy wants $200 to take it apart, then gives you a parts/labor reassemble of $700....you have to decide what to do. If he takes it apart, inspects, fixes a seal or two, reassembles for $300....your in for $500 you get the picture.
nobody knows what it will cost until somebody takes it apart and sees what is good and not good. hope this helps.

 

[stevenhickeys]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

Thanks for the insight. The more questions I'm asking about this L/U the more expensive it is getting.

I will probably lose my log in privilages asking these questions but I will take my chances.

When water leaks into the L/U, is it the bearings that fail most often or is it the gears?

What exactly happens to the L/U when it fails? Does it sieze up, or lose power due to worn out gears?

Lastly, is the upper housing effected by the contaminated oil, should that get disassembled too?

SH

 

[alldodge]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

When water leaks into the L/U, is it the bearings that fail most often or is it the gears?

Bearings

What exactly happens to the L/U when it fails? Does it sieze up, or lose power due to worn out gears?

Anything from what you mentioned to exploding from over heating. Most the time the bearings seize, a lot of noise and the engine stops. Why do you ask, want to see what happens if you do nothing?

Lastly, is the upper housing effected by the contaminated oil, should that get disassembled too?

In post 4 - the second sentence from 84EdH answered this one. short answer Yes, they both need inspected

 

[stevenhickeys]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

Thanks for your patience AllDodge.

It is clear that major work needs to be done on this O/D or unit failure is inevitable. I will contact my Merc buddy and see if he is up for the job. I will also look into a possible replacement if repair is to costly.

I guess bad news on a forum is better than bad news on the water!!

SH

 

[stevenhickeys]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

I saw an ad for Alpha one Gen one 1.84 gears. It looks exactly like the one on my boat. Is this the same unit as a MC-1? I would like to check it out if it is compatable.

SH

 

[84EdH]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

The drive would bolt up the same. The drive ratio are different. It might still work. If it wss me I would have the merc mechanic examine my drive. You might not have damage from the water intrusion, and you might get out pretty cheap. Buying a used drive is like buying your drive. Who knows what condition it is in. Unless you tear down the new purchase it an unknown

 

[stevenhickeys]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

Out of curousity, is the ration (1.84) designed for speed or power using a 19 pitch prop?

SH

 

[spdracr39]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

You need the drive ratio to match the engine package you have. Your original should have the ratio stamped on it near the s/n tag. There is also a chart of recommended ratios posted on here somewhere. Try an advanced search.

Found this http://www.seilermarine.com/info/mercruiser-drive-ratio-chart.php

 

[stevenhickeys]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

Thanks spdracr39,

According to the chart, my 1975 165 Mercruser O/D is considered an "R" style with a 1.65 ration and 24-24 tooth count. The Alpha 1 Gen 1 lists a 165 but it has a 1.84 ration and a 17-19 tooth count.

I had better pull the unit asap to count teeth and see where I go from here.

Thanks all for your advice and help.

SH

 

[ziggy]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

fwiw.

According to the chart, my 1975 165 Mercruser O/D is considered an "R" style

what chart is that? i have a '75 165hp mercruiser. i've always considered mine a MC-1. it does have 24-24 tooth count though. the tell tale imho is the stamped hash marks on the gears. anything else and it don't have the hash marks.

The Alpha 1 Gen 1 lists a 165 but it has a 1.84 ration and a 17-19 tooth count.

my suspision on that is it's the mercruiser 4 cyl. 165 version w/ alpha1 drive. not the chevy marinized L6 mercruiser w/MC-1 which had the 1:65 gear ratio.
my s/n is 4191106.

 

[stevenhickeys]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

I did some messing with my O/D last night. I jumped the up solenoid and the pump kicked on and the unit slowly went up. I did not jump the solenoid for more than 10 sec and the unit only went up about 1/3 of the way. I should replace the pump oil to make sure it is fresh and uncontaminated.

My next mission is to track down why the up toggle wiring is not activating the up solenoid. This type of investigation is not easy for me.

SH

 

[alldodge]

Re: Milky L/U fluid

Probably need to start a new thread to get more input on this subject
http://cemrweb.cemr.wvu.edu/~mathews/boat/pdf/manual/Chapter Eighteen.PDF