My 2 cents worth on charging systems

jumanjii1

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Jul 11, 2008
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17
Hello everyone,

I?ve only been on the marine scene for just over a month due to recently acquiring a 16 foot 1971 Crestliner with an Evinrude 60hp motor. This thing hadn?t run in quite a while and has changed hands several times due to the inability of the owners to affect proper repairs to the motor and boat.

The boat was in need of a re-wiring which I am just completing. Also the remote was missing a bunch of parts, including the cover, key switch, horn, and electric switch escutcheon cover plate. This stuff is not cheap and I have spent several hundred dollars already and have not even started the engine as of yet. The engine also has a bad Amplifier Assembly, a bad Rectifier Assembly and a bad Clipper Assembly. The Clipper Assembly I heard is not needed when upgrading to a new Amplifier Assembly so it will save me $250 dollars.

I?ve also been reading on here about the many problems people have been having with their charging systems and the dreaded Rectifier. So I will try and demystify the charging system and this most important part, the Rectifier.

The Rectifier as a lot of us know is used to convert Alternating Current (AC) to Direct Current (DC). It does this by using 4 Diodes arranged in such a way as to allow only Positive flow of electrons to be tapped from the AC and applied to the Positive terminal of the Rectifier, and allows Negative flow of electrons to be tapped from the AC and applied to the Negative terminal of the Rectifier.

I?ve included a pictorial of a Rectifier to demonstrate this theory.

And now to the Alternator or Magneto as it?s often called. The alternator is a generator, creating Alternating Current as magnets attached to a Flywheel, rotate around some copper windings or Stator, exciting the electrons and causing a pulse of electricity in the form of AC whenever the magnet passes by one of these coiled windings.

OK so the engine has started and the flywheel is turning, and the magnets are passing by the coiled windings and exciting these coils and the coils are now producing the Alternating Current. But we can?t use this Alternating Current to charge our batteries and run all our accessories. It?s the wrong kind of voltage.

Enter the Rectifier: With the rectifier in the circuit, out pours our nice DC current, ready to be used to charge our batteries and run our accessories. Isn?t science great!!!

So the Rectifier gets connected to the 2 AC wires coming from the Stator, generally the 2 yellow wires. And out comes Positive DC voltage from the red wire. The Negative DC comes from the side of the outer case of the Rectifier, in most cases. Some Rectifiers will have 4 wires, 2 yellows, a red and a black wire. The black wire being the ground wire. This is the simple charging circuit.

On bigger engines, there might be a regulator added after the Rectifier to tone down all that power. On smaller engines, the battery is used as sort of a capacitor to smooth out the bumps and keep the power at a reasonable level. This is why you need to keep your battery fully charged or the charging circuit may overload and fry, just trying to charge that spent battery. Hopefully the 20 amp fuse blows before this happens. You did see that fuse in there right? The fuse is there to protect the charging circuit.

So that?s my 2 cents worth. Hope this helps out. And feel free to correct me and/or add to this thread.

Thanks
 

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jonesg

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Feb 22, 2008
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Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

Neat.

Would that be correctly called a full wave rectifier?

Is it true that full wave rectifiers usually produce 90v DC ?
Or is that only with a 120v input?
 

jumanjii1

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Jul 11, 2008
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Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

Yes a full wave bridge rectifier.

Rectifier diodes are made from silicon and have a forward voltage drop of 0.7 Volts so it would be like 84 volts. But 90 is close enough.
 

Vic.S

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Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

What you saY about the two yellow wires and the four diodes is correct and applies to older models but some (later?) models have three yellow wires from the stator to the rectifier which appears to contain 6 diodes. Care to add that to your explanation?
 

jumanjii1

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Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

Yes one's for regular, one's for mid grade, and the 3rd one is high test, ha ha:)

OK OK It's a 3 phase circuit. Meaning that 3 separate lines are firing or pulsing at 120 degrees apart from each other. Lets say that you have a 360 degree radial, and for all intent and purposes, this radial is spinning. Well at each 120 degree of rotation, a pulse is created on the first wire. Then at 240 degrees, a pulse is created on the second wire. Then at 360 degrees, a pulse is created on the 3rd wire.

Why is this good? Because the by the time the first pulse has decayed only half way, the second pulse is already half way up on the plus side of the sin wave, leading to less chop of the voltage as in a single phase configuration where the the voltage will always drop to zero before the next pulse is fired. And you'll have a lot more current, one 3rd more than a single phase circuit. Holy cow, that's a big boat we can power. All those toys, all those toys.

Ok I have a headache now:D
 

CharlieB

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Apr 10, 2007
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5,617
Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

Open any late model GM or Ford alternator, you will find a three legged stator and a six diode rectifier. Been that way for years.
 

samo_ott

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Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

Why is there no big capacitor in there to smooth out the DC pulses like most electronic bridge rectifiers?
 

F_R

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Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

Samo, Not needed for a charging circuit. The battery takes care of the pulses as sort of a capacitor as already stated.

Somebody else questioned the voltages involved. The voltages are limited by the battery and don't normally go above about 16 volts in these systems.

juman, you welcomed any additions or corrections, so here goes:

Going back to the original post, the 20 amp fuse is not in the charging circuit and won't blow from alternator output. Also, yes you should keep the battery charged for various reasons, but running the motor with a low battery shouldn't hurt anything.

Without getting into a long debate on electricity flow (again), the explanation of positive and negative flow of electons isn't quite right. The electrons always flow in the same direction, using two sets of two diodes to rectify both halves of the AC sine wave. Only two diodes are conducting at any one instant. The other two are blocking reverse flow at that instant.

But otherwise, a good contributiion. Thanks
 

victos

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Dec 14, 2008
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6
Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

HI I HAVE A 1978 EVINRUDE 814CC 70 HP OUTBOARD
i have tested with a volt meter cross the battery while running and have no chargeing from engine :mad:
my question is do you know if i have a regulator on my engine cheers vic
 

victos

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Dec 14, 2008
Messages
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Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

victos,

welcome to iboats!


you will get more direct help if you start anew thread.


on a 78 you should just have a rectifier.

you can go to http://shop2.evinrude.com/ext/index.aspx?s1=04cb43b5efa581fc7000426a13d341a2 and get exploded diagrams and parts discriptions.

thanks champ ive read throu more threads [extreamly informitive] and have come to the conclusion that i.ve burnt the rectifier
[dumb *** me put the batt terminals on back to front]
, i,ve ordered one from my local australian dealer for $67au not bad going to pick up now!!
ps i didnt wnt to clag up your forum with a post that was probly asked many times before,

GRET FORUM YOU HAVE AND A WELTH OF KNOWLGE CHEERS VIC
 

david_r

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 11, 2008
Messages
1,118
Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

thanks champ ive read throu more threads [extreamly informitive] and have come to the conclusion that i.ve burnt the rectifier
[dumb *** me put the batt terminals on back to front]
, i,ve ordered one from my local australian dealer for $67au not bad going to pick up now!!
ps i didnt wnt to clag up your forum with a post that was probly asked many times before,

GRET FORUM YOU HAVE AND A WELTH OF KNOWLGE CHEERS VIC

that will certainly burn up a rec.......ive done it myself while moving my troller batt to the front for weight distribution .
 

jonesg

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Feb 22, 2008
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7,198
Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

A tidbit,

In search of research development funding Faraday demonstrated the first crude electric motor to prime minister Gladstone ,
the PM asked "interesting but what use does it have."

Faraday said "one day you can tax it".

He got the funding.
 

victos

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Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
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Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

Samo, Not needed for a charging circuit. The battery takes care of the pulses as sort of a capacitor as already stated.

Somebody else questioned the voltages involved. The voltages are limited by the battery and don't normally go above about 16 volts in these systems.

juman, you welcomed any additions or corrections, so here goes:

Going back to the original post, the 20 amp fuse is not in the charging circuit and won't blow from alternator output. Also, yes you should keep the battery charged for various reasons, but running the motor with a low battery shouldn't hurt anything.

Without getting into a long debate on electricity flow (again), the explanation of positive and negative flow of electons isn't quite right. The electrons always flow in the same direction, using two sets of two diodes to rectify both halves of the AC sine wave. Only two diodes are conducting at any one instant. The other two are blocking reverse flow at that instant.

But otherwise, a good contributiion. Thanks
with the old large batery i use, my new rectifier creeps up to 13volts and probily more if i waited but with a smaller brand new battery, the chargeng system puts out 15.5 volts almost instantaniously,a biggr battery is not allways the best.
thats my 2 sense ,cheers vic
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
28,226
Re: My 2 cents worth on charging systems

That's because the battery is fully charged.
 
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