My First Boat *pics and questions*

[Todesengel]

Well, a little history about myself. My name is Josh and I am 20 years old. I lived in the SF Bay Area for 18 years of my life, we never had a boat, only did shore fishing in the Delta and some brackish water. Then I moved to Arizona after my High-School Graduation to go to college. Now we got a bunch of lakes out here, and the 115+ temps are not very fun. Recently I went back to Ca to visit my mom, and I found a boat. FOR FREE. I am not quite sure what year it is. All I have is the bill of sale, the guy said when he finds the title, he will send it to me. I believe its a 85-92, possibly older Mark Twain 16' Tri-Hull. It has a Mariner 100 outboard on it. The guy said it has been sitting for a year. <br /><br />Now the starter is toast on the engine, but all the hoses, the fuel filter, the whole engine underneath the case is beautiful looking. It looks brand new! The controls work good, but the trim switch that is located on the throttle is busted. I took a look at it, but couldent figure out how to remove the switch. I am thinking about just cutting the three wires that go up the throttle, and re-wiring them to a switch and just have my trim tab on the dash. I took the starter off, and pulled it apart. The magnets on the inside were cracked and the wires on the electric motor part were all torn. So starter rebuild is out of the question. New ones are in the range of 250-300, on ebay around $75.00. I managed to rig the trim to go down a bit, put the suction cup thingy on the intake of the outboard, and in about 10minutes of pull-starting it, it fired right up. Sounded great! Now you could physically see the motor pickup most of the water. "it wasent pouring out the suction cup thing as much", but no water shot out the little hose jet thingy on top of the outboard. <br /><br />The interior of the boat is thrashed! The only good thing left is the back-to-back seats. So I pulled out the seats, removed the little side pocket things. Not quite sure what they are called, but they create a little pocket/storage area on the sides of the boat. And I yanked the ugly grey indoor-outdoor carpet out. The wood on the bottom looked in OK shape, definitly didnt look the best. The dash is out of control ugly. The tac and the speedo do not work, and they are not even mounted evenly. The tac is like 1/2'' lower than the speedo. And there is a cigarette lighter 1/4'' from hitting the steering wheel. The Bow area looks in pretty good shape, except that it is just plastic, and there are no cushions what-so-ever. The bottom of the boat has a big gouge in it, the guy said it was just cosmetic. You can tell it was fiberglassed on the inside of the hull, and there is a little resin type substance on the outside. And the bottom of the boat is covered in this black girtty substance. Havent quite felt it yet, but its all discolored the whole bottom of the boat.<br /><br />Now for the questions. Keep in mind I am pretty mechanically inclined and want to do most of the stuff myself. Being in college and working for $6.50 and hour, I am on a tight budget. What I want to do to the boat is new carpet, new paint on the outside, want to re-upholstry everything with a pepsi blue/white color scheme. Fix the starter, install (4) 6led light bars on the inside of the boat. Install a regular car stereo in the glove box. Should be safe there right? and some 6x9 speakers in the sides of the boat as well. Possibly re-make the dash with new gauges. And mount a cigarette lighter in the back near the battery.<br /><br />Now I want to build my own seats for the bow, I was thinking a wrap around, like a horseshoe shape in the bow, and then a backing to match and mount on the side of the bow. Any idea how much vinyl will cost, and foam. I have never done interiors before, but I believe you can just get some plywood, some vinyl and some foam, and staple the vinyl to the back of the plywood and mount it? I also want to do this to the sides of the boat, those little pieces of wood that create a storage space on the side, also the control panel is mounted to these. What are they called?<br /><br />Now no water shot out of the hose when I had the motor running. Is this normal when connected to the hose? Does the motor usually have to be submerged in water? How can you tell if your outboard is overheating? Would I be better off taking the boat to a marine shop and pay them whatever to check the engine and make sure its in good running order?<br /><br />Like I said before, the trim switch is all jacked up. I took a side off the control panel, and saw three wires. I believe they were a white, a blue, and a green? Now could I just extend these wires, run them down the side of the boat, and to a threeway momentary switch in the dash?<br /><br />I know there is more, I just can't think of it right now. Here are all the pictures!<br /><br />

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[CATransplant]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Big job ahead for you, for sure. But that's what youth is for, eh? Go for it, and keep us informed. For info and help with the Mariner, we have a forum just Mercury and Mariner. For boat help, ask your questions in the Boat Repair and Restoration forum. You'll get best results by taking things one at a time.

 

[89cruisers]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Hi Josh, First before you do you you know if the boat has a stringer system (most boats do very few dont, it would be a series long lumber or fiberglass blocks extending from the port to starboard side of the the boat. if it does and theyre bad then the boat wouldnt be worth putting any money into, because by the time you spend the money on a new stringer system plus everything else you could buy a better boat. I would buy a water resistant sterio holder to put it in instead of the dash board especially since its a tri-hull but since your on a tight budget that would work. Next I would put some wood preservitive on the floor since it looks like it could use some sealing. and also when you build your seats dont worry about spending $20-$25 a piece on marine grade lumber all you have to do is buy standard lumber ($10-15) and put wood preservitive on it every 2 years and it will last even longer then Marine Grade that way, and cost less. personally I dont think putting the 12 volt power supply in the back is a good idea because of the moisture build up and it is less accesible then on the dash (and if you ever sell it having a power supply on the dash is a good extra), but you can put it wherever you want. There isnt any official name for the vinyle that goes on the sides I just call them the vinyl sides. as for the water, on most engines there are outlets somewhere on the mid-top are of the motor where water comes out once it has gone thru and cooled the engine but not always, and yes if the engine is running the outboard ALWAYS has to be in the water. I would highly suggest you bring it to a boat marine shop to check the engine because outboards can be harder to work on in the middle of a lake/ocean. and they could probably tell you more about how to restore that boat more than me because they see it in person. for the hull, anycrack that goes from the inside of the boat to the outside can be dangerouse, make sure the crack is waterproof and once you get it on the water make sure after each time you take it out that it is'nt spreading if it is then look in the yellow pages for somone that could tell you how to fix it. for the dirt and grime I recommend Star-Brite products just because they always seem to work good. if you have a Boat-US or West-Marine around you they would sell star-brite, also before you buy to much, you might want to think about Joing BOAT-US if there is one around you, because you get a $20 reward cupon for joining and then you earn $15 for every time you spend over $300. plus you can get towing services thru them. if you have any more questions you can e-mail me at bbjscooby@aol.com or just post them here and you can get anwsers from even more people. Hope this helps,Brian

 

[CalicoKid]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Hi Josh, Has that boat been in saltwater? The floor looks rotten from here which would lead me to think the stringers beneath would be rotten too. Check it out by trying to stick a screwdriver or awl through the floor in a bunch of places. Go read some of the threads in the boat restoration section of this forum, guys there are bringing boats like this back from the dead but it's a lot of work. If you want a means to splash around on a lake once in a while and aren't concerned with impressing anyone you might be able to get by on a tight budget, you just gotta focus on the needs and forgoe some of the wants. If you want a like-new boat you're in for a lot of work and cash outlay.<br /><br />If it were in my driveway I would take out the battery and powerwash the hell out of the boat, inside and out. I might use a mild acid wash on the outside of the hull to get the growth off (I would be careful to rinse the driveway well too). I'd get the title before getting too involved. I'd take that VW out and see how she holds the turns. I'd inspect all wood carefully, especially under the floor, maybe cut some inspection holes. A rotten boat is an unsafe one. You really need to know what's going on structurally before working on the comfort stuff. The gel-coat hull might be restorable. It takes a lot of wet sanding and rubbing but gel-coat is much better than paint. I'd only paint it if the gel-coat was too far gone, worn through, or an ugly color. White is nice though, worth trying to save.<br /><br />Oh, check out the transom too. Pull back on the motor, stand on the anti-vent plate, see if you can get the transom to flex a lot (it will flex a little even if it's good). Knock on the outside of it listening for a change in sound indicating rotten hollow spots. There is wood inside that will rot if soaked. Look for big cracks in the fiberglass.<br /><br />Get your title before you drop any money. You should probably post anything pertaining to this boat in the projects and restoration area. Good luck!

 

[RatFish]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Big job! Try MaryKate On & Off for the stains on the hull. It costs about $12 for a quart. It's nasty stuff so be carefull and follow the directions. Good luck with your project.

 

[Todesengel]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Thanks for the support guys and taking me seriously. I posted this thread on thehulltruth and marktwainboats.org and everybody laughed at me and thought it was a joke. I will be pulling up the floorboards and replacing them this week, at the same time I will be inspecting the stringers. Also gonna take off all the trim/accessories, and electronics. Wet sand the entire boat in the few months to come. Then worry about all the creature comforts. Thanks again! And keep an eye out for the build up in the restore section!

 

[danie]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

I see lots of potential in that wreck. With a lot of hard work and determination it could turn out to be a looker. And I wont mind that outboard for myself (without the hydrofoils of course).<br />Remember the telltale must pee strongly within a few seconds of running on the hose. If not switch off immediately and replace waterpump. I would do that anyway as well as replacing the plugs and gear oil. Also check and service the oil injection system (an oil pump kit is cheap enough) and make sure the alarms work.<br />Good luck.

 

[BF]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

ditto what has been said above, if you get the title and proceed, I was gonna suggest that you change your mindset a bit. Phase 1 is to get boat and engine mechanically and structually fit. At that point it would be useable, but still not pretty. Phase 2 would be the cosmetic stuff.... but it seems like you've already come to the same conclusion.<br /><br />By the way, the raw plywood on the floor is a quickie/dirty patch job... it shouldn't be like that. It would've been fiberglassed originally. If the original floor was that rotted, brace yourself before you look at the stringers.

 

[Mark42]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Here is some good news! That trihull will give a nice flat ride on a nice day out on the bay. It should corner flat and be really stable when not under way. Only drawback is they don't cut through chop as well as a V hull. <br /><br />BTW those side pocket things are often called "consols" and come in really handy for storing stuff. Especially in a small boat where you have limited floor space and need to keep everying neatly stored away. So even if they are trash, keep them as templates when cutting fresh ones from plywood.

 

[craze1cars]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

I'd highly recommend moving this post over to the Boat restoration and building section of this forum. You'll find a HUGE amount of support and info over there.<br /><br />Good luck and enjoy...you're in for an enormous project, but not insurmountable. Free boats are rarely cheap, as you'll find when you start buying the materials. Be VERY careful about inspecting the wood withing the stringers and the transom structure before you replace or even buy the materials for the floor, or you'll waste a ton a money beautifying a boat that will start to rip in half when it starts to pound the waves. Drill a few holes from the inside and see if the wood comes out clean and dry. If you get soaked woodmulch, I say abandon the project, or increase your budget. That apparent piece of angle-iron across the transom bothers me...I wonder if someone noticed significant flex and tried to do a hillbilly reinforcement here. That 100hp motor may be too big for that little boat, is there a coast-guard tag anywhere on it? I'd also recommend a compression test on the motor before you go very far...might tell you if it needs a cost-prohibitive rebuild or not.<br /><br />This is a SWAG (Stupid Wild-A** Guess) but if you do all the work yourself as you've described, I'd budget about $1,000 to $1,500 for materials and parts by the time you're done. Add another $500 to $1,000 if you need transom & stringers replaced. That's assuming the motor is relatively strong and doesn't need any rebuilding. For $2,000, you may be able to buy a very respectable used boat that needs much less work instead of burying yourself into this one. But if you think you'll enjoy the project itself, the rewards are great.

 

[stevens]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Todesengel - quite a name you've chosen for yourself. Sorry, but it's not very pleasant to those of us familiar with WWII or Jewish history or with the German language. (see this link: http://www.spiegel.de/sptv/themenabend/0,1518,282659,00.html ).<br /><br />Anyway, best of luck with your project. With the ownership title, more cash than you'd think possible, and some mechanical skills, you should be fine in a few months' time.

 

[JesseBannor]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Just a note for those of us on a budget. I wanted to build my own seats too. The quality foam was expensive though. So I went to a "pull it yourself" junk yard and pulled the back seats from two old Crown Vics. The foam is quality, high density in cars, and if you get a big piece from a back seat, you can make bench seats or cut it to fit your style of seat. It only cost me $30 for both. I got a bench seat for the back, and two captins chairs worth of foam. Then I covered them with Vinyl and I was set.

 

[Todesengel]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Well just as an update, I pulled up the floor, and the stringers were toast! I have been doing my research, and I don't see where you guys are getting your figures from as of the price to replace the stringers. I will be doing it all myself and I can't see it costing anything over $200 to replace them. The stringers in bow were flawless, and looked like they were replaced a while ago. And Admins, if you want to move this to the boat restoration forum, I would appreciate that.<br /><br />

 

[fishingdan]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Well, you've got some work to do. Take your time and rebuild her step by step. I would work inside out (i.e. repair the internal structure before anything else). <br /><br />Really take a close look at the transom. The transom is obviously a critical element of the boat's structure. The great majority of fiberglass boats until recently had transoms that had plywood cores. It is not uncommon to find a rotted wood core in the transom. <br /><br />For the stringers and the floor, you can use void free exterior ply. You may need to look through a hole stack of ply at the home store, but it is important since the voids will be points of weakness. <br /><br />Ideally, you would use epoxy to encapsulate all of the wood, epoxy with filler to make fillets (transition surfaces when joining, for example, a stringer to the hull bottom) and for bonding a few layers of structural fiberglass in such a way that it spans, for example, the stringers and the hull bottom. Unfortunately, epoxy is expensive. You could use a polyester resin for this work, but read up on the two to understand the differences. <br /><br />I think this will be a great project for you, but take your time, understand your choices and do the job correctly. The hull, the stringers and the sole all need to be carefully bonded to create a monoque structure that will give the boat to its original strength. <br /><br />Good luck with the project.

 

[craze1cars]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Keep cutting back a bit further...from the condition of the stringers I suspect you'll need to dig out the transom as well. I presume your comment about $ figures was directed at me as I'm the only one that threw one out. My guess was based on personal experience...I did such a restoration myself last winter. By no means did I mean that my $1K to $2K+ guestimate was just for the structure alone, but for the entire project (stringers, epoxy/poly glass material, floatation foam, floor plywood, carpet & adhesive, upholstery, stainless hardware, motor repairs & tuneup, gelcoat, seats, personal protective gear, bandaids, beer, etc, etc,). Your actual cost will depends how far you want to take it, and how perfect you want it to be. I used 100% epoxy, which is expensive. Enough epoxy/mat/silica mixture to properly encapsulate the stringers alone will clear out your $200 estimate. Standard poly resin will save you some money, but I hate working with it so I felt the epoxy was worth the extra cash for my use as it's much more pleasant. You sound very motivated and that's great...have a blast and be careful to make sure you do it right. Take the time to really think it through...list out everything you need to buy and in what quantity, then start pricing the entire project, not just one piece at a time. This is especially important since you indicate you have little money and are on a tight budget, I just want to give you advance warning that you'll likely be spending more than you think to do this right. Spend some time studying other people's projects on the Restoration forum and ask lots of questions over there, it really helped give me some insight on how this is to best be done.<br /><br />And by all means, make sure you have a good assessment of the condition of that motor before you spend much money. You had it fired and that's a good thing, so hopefully a starter and waterpump will take care of it, but at the very least do a compression test to make sure it doesn't have a hidden internal problem.

 

[Todesengel]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Thanks for all the information guys! I really appreciate it! And craze, thanks for the help. I was reading a few books on fiberglass online, and I will be going with the epoxy. And I will prob end up spending a lot more than I think. But I am just going to do it slow over time. A little bit out of every paycheck, like tomorrow (friday) is my payday. And I am buying everything for my floor. Then in another two weeks the engine, another two, the interior, and then if I havent killed myself yet, I will do the exterior. And where would be the best place to purchase plugs, wires, and a waterpump? The starter is already getting worked on at a local starter/alternator shop. And I now have the title!!<br /><br />Questions:<br /><br />1.) Has anybody ever tried to do like a Rhino Bed liner spray on the stringers and the floorboards? From what my buddy told me It will keep ALL moisture out, and will be very durable. Will fiberglass bond to that surface?<br /><br />2.) I was inspecting the transom, and it looked very strong. Now I tried to stand on it a bit, jump up and down a bit, now I weigh 210lbs. And it flexed a little bit. Didnt move to much with me and the outboard on it. When I was looking underneath the transom area thingy, I didn't see any cracks or any wood at all... Which I thought was strange, I felt around and it looked good. Still haven't done the sound test thing on it, I will be doing that tomorrow, so hopefully a few thuds and it will good. If not, might be trashin the project.<br /><br />3.) Would it be better to purchase pre-treated marine board. Or use standard plywood and then treat it myself? What kind of cure times are we looking at for water sealant/protection?

 

[bh357]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Todesengel, it looks like you're in for a bit of a project, but it is most definately doable. A number of folks here, myself included, have been through the boat restoration thing. But, once you're done, you'll have something you can be proud of.<br />I would most definately check the transom for rot. A fairly easy check is to pull out as many bolts in the transom as possible (tow eyes, motor mount bolts, etc...), as usually these are likely spots for water to enter. More than likely you will end up having to replace the transom, based on your assessment of the stringers. The additional cost to do the transom is not that high, although it is a bit of labor.<br /><br />As for the people that were laughing on the other boards... when your project is completed, bump up those threads with some photos of your restored boat. See if they still laugh.<br /><br />Ditto the advice on the title. Be sure to read your state laws. Michigan would only require a bill of sale to register your boat, but I believe that Texas requires titles on outboard motors. If your state requires only a bill of sale, you should still see about registering it early (at least make sure you're CRYSTAL CLEAR on the requirements). My original bill of sale was incomplete (no HIN, generic description), and I had to have the seller re-do it. Fortunately the seller was not a stranger to me.<br /><br />Please keep us updated with your progress. It will definately be a nice feeling when you put her in the water for the first time, fire it up, idle away, plane it out and let her run.

 

[AguaSki]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Todesengel, I also boat is AZ. Usually at Lake Pleasant NW of Phoenix.<br /><br />I have pasted some links to the AZ Fish & Game Department. The link contains AZ's boat registration requirements and other useful information.<br /><br />Good luck.<br /><br /> http://www.azgfd.gov/outdoor_recreation/boating.shtml <br /><br /> http://www.azgfd.gov/pdfs/outdoor_recreation/application_of_certification.pdf <br /><br /> http://www.azgfd.gov/pdfs/outdoor_recreation/bill_of_sale.pdf

 

[craze1cars]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

oops. see next post.

 

[craze1cars]

Re: My First Boat *pics and questions*

Originally posted by Todesengel:<br /> 1.) Has anybody ever tried to do like a Rhino Bed liner spray on the stringers and the floorboards? From what my buddy told me It will keep ALL moisture out, and will be very durable. Will fiberglass bond to that surface?<br /><br />2.) I was inspecting the transom, and it looked very strong. Now I tried to stand on it a bit, jump up and down a bit, now I weigh 210lbs. And it flexed a little bit. Didnt move to much with me and the outboard on it. When I was looking underneath the transom area thingy, I didn't see any cracks or any wood at all... Which I thought was strange, I felt around and it looked good. Still haven't done the sound test thing on it, I will be doing that tomorrow, so hopefully a few thuds and it will good. If not, might be trashin the project.<br /><br />3.) Would it be better to purchase pre-treated marine board. Or use standard plywood and then treat it myself? What kind of cure times are we looking at for water sealant/protection?

1. Forget Rhino-liner. Just precoat all your boards in thin epoxy before assembling to waterproof them forever. Go to www.raka.com (my favorite epoxy supplier) and read their instruction manual and/or call them for advice. There are also other good epoxies out there, West Systems seems most popular on this board.<br /><br />2. Best way to test a transom is to drill a hole part way through from the inside. Drill low, close to the bottom of the hull. You'll know it's condition by looking at the wood that drills out of the hole. If all looks like solid wood, fill the hole with epoxy and you're good. If it comes out wet and mulchy, cut the wood out and replace just like you're doing the stringers.<br /><br />3. I don't like marine treated plywood. I prefer standard stuff with little to no voids and 2 to 3 coats of thin epoxy brushed in on all sides of every board (especially the ends) to waterproof it.<br /><br />Start doing searches on each of these questions in this forum, they've been addressed many times before by people more experienced than myself and you'll have all kinds of reading if you dig around in here. Enjoy!