My First Boat Restoration - 15 Foot Hurrecan

[ElHurrecan]

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This will be my first boat restoration ever. I'm working with a 1972 "Hurrecan" 15 foot skiff. I could find nothing on this brand other than a riveted in plate that says "H&H Molded Products, Ashley Indiana". I'm not sure of the origins of this boat, I'd appreciate any knowledge. My guess is it is a custom boat or something that someone retitled as homemade and spelled Hurricane wrong. I like the name, it has character

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The floor and transom were shot. I already completely gutted the floor and transom. I'm not exactly the term for this but the boat was designed to have a completely glassed in floor and transom. There is no water that is supposed to get in the hull. Most boats with raised decks on stringers don't function like this.

Here's where I started (click links for full res images):


https://www.boatdesign.net/attachments/img_20170426_190404-jpg.133564/


https://www.boatdesign.net/attachments/img_20170428_175410-jpg.133559/

Here's the transom and cap. There are a lot of gouges and holes on the cap that must be repaired. There was a lot of redneck goop on that cap, it took 2 days to get it off.


https://www.boatdesign.net/attachments/img_20170430_193824-jpg.133560/

https://www.boatdesign.net/attachments/img_20170426_190404-jpg.133564/

https://www.boatdesign.net/attachments/img_20170506_145241-jpg.133561/

Here's where I'm at now. I totally grinded down the existing glass. Notice some stringers are broken.


https://www.boatdesign.net/attachments/img_20170520_202945-jpg.133562/

https://www.boatdesign.net/attachments/img_20170509_182450-jpg.133563/

Since I want a totally waterproof floor and maximum durability I am choosing to use Epoxy, specifically WestSystem.

Anyway here are my questions.

• I quickly learned that CSM and epoxy do not work well together. CSM is designed for polyester as it breaks down the styrene binders. I did also pick up some 8oz woven. I read that you never want to use woven by itself. I was also reading about 1708 biax which is like a hybrid CSM\Woven? What type of fiberglass would you use for each portion, the floor, the transom, small repairs, and the stringers. Remember I am using epoxy.
• Notice the stringers, I'm not sure if you would call them stringers. A few of them are broken. I was going to simply sand them down a bit and glass them together. One plan I had was to place wood (a 2x4) inside the stringers to give them strength. I'm not sure if this is a good idea since couldn't if wood swells from moisture it could potentially lift the floor or crack the hull. If I am fine doing this should I coat the wood in glass to waterproof it.
• Foam or not to foam? Is it bad to just leave the hull full of air. Water is not suposed to get in there anyway.
• Any specific plywood you recommend? I planned on doing marine ply for the transom and standard ply (non-PT) for the floor. The glass will waterproof it anyway.
• I do not want to drill into my floor under any circumstances. Good idea? I plan on glassing in additional wood for me to screw my seats into. I am going to mount the center console by glassing in either wood to screw to or L brackets to screw to. What are your opinions on this?

Any help and guidance is appreciated.
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[ElHurrecan]

Any advice?

 

[Woodonglass]

My advice is to do some searching here on the forum. There are Hundreds of similar projects. Best way to learn what to do is seeing what others have done.
The second link in my signature line below would be a good starting point. It appears that your stringers are Formed using Heavy Woven Roving,. They prolly used cardboard for forming material and it's long since disentegrated. If the Shells are still well attached to the hull then you could repair the cut out sections with the same heavy Woven Roving. First thing to do is to Power wash the interior and get her as clean as possible. This will allow for a more thorough inspection of the stringer tabbings to the hull.

 

[ElHurrecan]

The boat restoration took a seat on the back burner but I'm picking it back up. I built up the fishing deck, fixed the "stringers", laid additional cross supports, laid the first piece of flooring, and recently built\glued the transom.

Here's the progress so far

Supports for the fishing deck were attached with screws and epoxied in.

The "stringers" are fixed and additional support added since the center "stringers" are kind of flexy. 2x4 was placed into each of the "stringers" and glued down to give added support.

A view showing the first piece of floor drying as well as the fishing deck. Fishing deck cut, glued, and the sides packet with West Systems 406 (Colloidal Silica).

The current state of the boat showing the transom drying as well as a shot from back to front.

Things I've learned.

• CSM sucks to work with epoxy. I encountered this when patching holes prior to epoxying the transom to the hull. I would take my paint brush and tap the epoxy into the CSM. It created a lot of air bubbles and white spots. I eventually got it to work and the holes are patched.
• Get a good dusk mask and safety glasses. I can't stress this enough to any other amateur who finds my thread. My respirator did not seal correctly and I spent the next day with a massive headache. Fiberglass is horrible for your health.

Now I have some questions about materials. What cloth should I order for the sole and transom?

For the transom I was thinking of using 1708 biaxial cloth\mat combo from US Composites. From what I see the 1708 seems to be the general "all purpose" glass for use with epoxy. I can use the 1708 to patch various holes both in the boat and on the cap. How many layers for the transom?

For the sole I don't think the floor actually provides any structural integrity and my main goals are sealing and waterproofing (I am creating an air chamber and completely sealing under the floor. Can\should I use the 1708 here as well or should I go with something like 6 oz e-glass (plain weave) or a woven roving? What are the pros\cons of each? How many layers for the sole?

How is working 1708? Does it sand well? If not can I put a layer of fairing compound over it?

 

[kcassells]

Order the 1700 biax, no backing, less resin. It's great w/EEEEPPPoooxxxyyy!

 

[Woodonglass]

Using any CSM when using Epoxy is a total waste of time and money. 1708 has CSM stitched to it and is usually and recommended to only be used with poly or vinylester resin. As stated before plain biax fabris is all that's needed. Your clamping method for your transom is not very good and I fear it will not be adequately adhered to the outer skin. Did you thicken the epoxy to apply to the outer skin and the transom wood? It not, again I fear it will not be adequately adhered. I'm confused on how you did the stringers. could you be a bit more specific. what wood did you use, did you precoat the wood with epoxy? 17 oz Biaxial fabric is the recommended weight for Stringers and Transom. Deck should have the bottom side coated with 2 coats of epoxy No Glass. Top Side Precoat wood then lay 2 layers of 6 oz biax.. Fill the crack between the deck and sides with Thickened expoxy using micro ballons for the thickening agent and then Tab the deck to the sides of the hull using the 17 oz fabric running it 6" on both the deck and the sides

I'd recommend ready and understanding the 2nd link in my signature lines below.

 

[ElHurrecan]

Using any CSM when using Epoxy is a total waste of time and money. 1708 has CSM stitched to it and is usually and recommended to only be used with poly or vinylester resin. As stated before plain biax fabris is all that's needed.

From my reading of various posts 1708 is epoxy compatible since the CSM is stitched rather than held together with binders. Is it more of 1708 and epoxy are not compatible or it's just stupid to use since it sucks a lot of goo and ther are more cost effective options for comparable strength.

Is 1708 a good choice for repair work even with epoxy? My assumption is that the CSM can add bulk. In my cap I have holes for fishing rod holders that I need to fill. It's going to require grinding\tapering and applying several layers.

Also when you say biax I assume you mean +\-45deg not +\- 90

Your clamping method for your transom is not very good and I fear it will not be adequately adhered to the outer skin. Did you thicken the epoxy to apply to the outer skin and the transom wood? It not, again I fear it will not be adequately adhered.

Agreed I could have clamped better but it did work. The epoxy is as hard as a rock and there is no apparent voids or flex. The epoxy was thickened and I was liberal with the amount used. I tried to minimize drilling into the transom and repairing the holes.

I'm confused on how you did the stringers. could you be a bit more specific. what wood did you use, did you precoat the wood with epoxy?

Only a few of the stringers needed actual repair. For these I put cardbord in what was left to create a form and used several layers of mat\cloth. They might not be pretty but they are rock hard and have zero flex. For the center ones that sagged a bit I used standard 2x4 pieces. There was no wood in there to begin with. I added an additional support cross beam. My floor section that I laid thus far is pretty strong and I don't anticipate an issue.

I did not coat the wood. I am completely sealing the hull and do not expect any water intrusion. I will not penetrate the floor at all and everything is going to be glassed over w\ epoxy. Should I have coated them? Probably but I did not.

Top Side Precoat wood then lay 2 layers of 6 oz biax.. Fill the crack between the deck and sides with Thickened expoxy using micro ballons for the thickening agent and then Tab the deck to the sides of the hull using the 17 oz fabric running it 6" on both the deck and the sides

Majority of the boat is going to be about 55". This will require me to overlap the layers of glass, especially the 6 oz you recommend. The way I can achieve the two layers you recommend is:

• Lay layer 1 of the 50" roll down the middle.
• Lay strips down the side (overlap into the first layer about 6"??)
• Lay layer2 above the first one. The will overlap some of the strips.
• Lay strips down the side.

The 17oz that you recommend use to tab to the sides will obviously overlap. Is the varying layers of glass going to "look ugly" once complete. How do you intend that I hide the overlaps which change depth. Do I hit the whole deck with a fairing compound or coat of epoxy?

EDIT:
You mentioned use 6oz biax. I can't seem to find this. The only 6 oz fabrics I find are the "6 oz plain weave" e-glass type. Should I use this or can I just lay 17oz everywhere? 17oz with no CSM is pretty cheap.

h_TTp://w_w_w.fiberglasssiteDOTcom/1700/

I'd recommend ready and understanding the 2nd link in my signature lines below.

Really appreciate you taking the time to write that up, very valuable information. I read that guide awhile ago and couldn't find it. These forums along with Youtube (Shoutout to "Boatworks Today") have been very helpful.

Order the 1700 biax, no backing, less resin. It's great w/EEEEPPPoooxxxyyy!

This was mentioned in my response to Woodonglass but is 1700 by itself good for repair work where you need to bulk up a lot of layers?

 

[boedekerj]

Looks like you're up an running, and hard at it. Fun project! I am curious how you are going to fill those stringers, and with what? Those existing stringer channels; Are they pretty sturdy? Just looking at them, the glass looks, very strange, like a brownish color. Perhaps it's photo degraded by being exposed to the elements.

 

[kcassells]

1700 in EEEppoooxxyyy is the same as 1708 in poly. it is the bestessest. Yes wood answered your question after I posted. He says the same thing I said. Conversations overlap. Good luck! Looking good.
You should read around more from glass mfg. and the applications. Will save you money taboot. I just pm you.

 

[ElHurrecan]

Looks like you're up an running, and hard at it. Fun project! I am curious how you are going to fill those stringers, and with what? Those existing stringer channels; Are they pretty sturdy? Just looking at them, the glass looks, very strange, like a brownish color. Perhaps it's photo degraded by being exposed to the elements.

I'm not sure if stringers is the right word for these as they are not stringers in the traditional sense.

I have a similar thread running at boatdesignDOTnet and someone mentioned that these were likely formed with cardboard and glassed over, the cardbord long since deteriorated. It's hit or miss, some of them are sturdy, some are missing a chunk, and some flop around. All except one of the side stringers is sturdy. With the center ones they get sturdier as I go back.

For the missing chunks I stuffed cardboard in and glassed over hte missing section. For the ones missing altogether I formed a rectangle the best I could w\ cardboard and glassed over it. None of this was an exact science, I did the best I can. As long as it's strong and not ridiculously high or low it works. My front deck piece contacts all stringers and the cross support.

I only reinforced the center ones. I took standard non-PT 2x4, cut it to length, put a liberal amount of marine glue on and tapped them in. I should have glassed them over or at least put epoxy on them but I did not. I am sealing the hull, not drilling into my floor, and do not anticipate any water intrusion.

For additional reinforcement I put a cross member. That one was a 2x4 w\ two sheets of ply glued to it. This isn't an exact science. I put the wood down, stood on it, and if I felt flex reinforced. I may do one or two cross members on the middle and back deck piece but I'm not there yet.

 

[ElHurrecan]

1700 in EEEppoooxxyyy is the same as 1708 in poly. it is the bestessest. Yes wood answered your question after I posted. He says the same thing I said. Conversations overlap. Good luck! Looking good.
You should read around more from glass mfg. and the applications. Will save you money taboot. I just pm you.

I sent you a PM. Not sure if you got it since nothing is appearing in my sent folder.

 

[kcassells]

I sent you a PM. Not sure if you got it since nothing is appearing in my sent folder.

Yea it seems the pm function doesn't work. Mine is doing the same thing. Try uscomposites for glass and other tings.

 

[ElHurrecan]

Yea it seems the pm function doesn't work. Mine is doing the same thing. Try uscomposites for glass and other tings.

I reported the PM situation to the mods. Perhaps your box is full?
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With the 1700, do you suggest I use it for everything (tabbing the deck, covering the deck, and the transom)? After I lay the 1700 do I need to lay either epoxy or fairing compound for finishing since some threads mention this cloth is not good to finish with?

What about repair work. Since it doesn't have the CSM on the back won't it take more layers to bulk it up?

 

[Woodonglass]

Epoxy is stronger than Poly just by itself with two layers of 1700 biax and the expoxy it will be MORE than adequate for any areas of your hull. 6ox E glass is fine for the deck. Precoating the wood is almost a must because not matter how hard you try water can/will get below deck. take an empty jar seal it tight and set it in the driveway It'll heat up during the day and cool at night and in the morning there'll be Water in the jar from condensation. Boat works the same way. Precoating also keeps the wood from sucking into much resin and making for dry spots in the glass. Tab the deck to the sides first and then the he e Glass over the 1700 and there'll be an almost imperceptible ridge. CSM can be used but as stated It's a waste of money. The resin used to wet out two layers of plain 17oz is plenty. Use it if you wish but not needed. Your stringers are Hollow Stringers and are Great. But. the walls and top of them should be a minimum of 1/4" thick. that would require about 4-5 layers of 17oz biax and LOT of epoxy. They probably WERE INDEED Cardboard Molds.

 

[kcassells]

I reported the PM situation to the mods. Perhaps your box is full?
​​​​​​
With the 1700, do you suggest I use it for everything (tabbing the deck, covering the deck, and the transom)? After I lay the 1700 do I need to lay either epoxy or fairing compound for finishing since some threads mention this cloth is not good to finish with?

What about repair work. Since it doesn't have the CSM on the back won't it take more layers to bulk it up?

Correct me if I'm wrong...But as I understand it csm has NO structural integrity at all.

 

[chevymaher]

Correct me if I'm wrong...But as I understand it csm has NO structural integrity at all.

I Hope it has some. My entire boat was made with it, no cloth at all except in the actual hull.

 

[Woodonglass]

Sorry but CSM adds very little strength to the mix it’s only a Binder to keep poly from cracking when it cures. Glass Fabric provides the strength to avoid cracking when the hull flexes