My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after another oil pump fail

jiffyboat

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had many boats and several Johnson Evinrude motors and always disconnected the oil pump system, personally as automechanic and many year working in outboards , think that the Johnson Evinrude oils pump system is a big POS, but in this case the motor was very well smoking like the Jonnys and Evin do, and I desired to give it a shot , well I got the shot, motor was running great and the boat planing beautiful , until the motor starts suddenly losing power and them , stop running, tried starting and motor hardly spin , pulled the cover and the starboard head was very hot , firs thing I though was , the thermost , let it seat , for 5min, and started , but it din't sound good, like tot, tot , tot, well you know , when a cylinder is dead... hardly make it to the ramp, back home ..... my first test , was , to pull one of the fuel house , that feed the carbs, right from the hated oil/ fuel pump, and you know what right..... pure fuel, no oil.... pulled the plugs , and the were totally dry.. ... no sight of oil at all.... the good five cylinder are fine ..the bud..one is not...0psi...... and this afternoon .... in front of my good friend Jonny... I swear by god... to disconnect every other Johnson , Evinrude oil system that I fund in front of me... and you my friend should do the same................ is better to premix and know the motor is getting oil that give it the benefit of the doubt.... and fail
 
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boobie

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Thanks...fro..teh...grete...inffffffffo....
 

jiffyboat

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

idi nahui iu van urot
 

Faztbullet

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Uhhh...........You need to read how a VRO/OMS pump works as a VRO/OMS pump CANNOT make just 1 cylinder fail:facepalm:
 

daselbee

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

VRO likely did not fail. You ran one cyl lean due to a dirty carb, or some other common fault. I bet if you pull the carb for the affected cylinder, you will find that the HS jet is clogged, or occluded with varnish, etc.

A VRO failure would have affected all cylinders, not one.

Post back when you find out.
 

jiffyboat

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

was definitely the pump, if not how do you explain that out of the pump came out just pure fuel, when the fuel is mixed in the VRO pump, it have to go the carburetors in a blue green color, , but in this case it was all clear yellow , and the plugs were totally dry , same as the cylinder, when I pulled the head the three cylinders were all dry , no a drop of oil ... so how do you explain that ?... the three carburetor when bad at the same time , when a minute before where working perfect, I think it was just a matter of time, hopefully the ramp was very close and the damage didn't happend to the other cylinder, butt to make you guys happy , and for me to get out of the doubt , I will open the carb and check it out... will post any way
 

JB

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

If VRO fails one cylinder will go before the others. That doesn't mean that this is what happened.

Please investigate other possible causes.
 

WernerF

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Why didn't you get an alarm, or did you?
 

mekkamaz

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Yep, why did not the temp buzz sounds if left head was steaming hot?

another dislexic in the family.....right head....LOL!!
 

Faztbullet

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

If VRO fails one cylinder will go before the others. That doesn't mean that this is what happened.
Please explain this as all three carbs are fed by single output.
hardly make it to the ramp, back home
If you idled back to ramp the oil/fuel mix would have been about 80:1 ratio so it would have been yellow in color as it did not have much oil in it.
 

JB

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Please explain this as all three carbs are fed by single output.

Of course, all 6 cylinders would be denied lubrication. But they are fueled by six different jets and venturi. It is very unlikely that all six would have exactly the same fuel air mix and would croak in unison.
 

daselbee

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

His description of the failure....when he was running full out...and it lost power and shut down...then would not turn over...then waited a few minutes, and it started up....

Classic single cylinder seizure symptoms of running lean. I have had it happen to me, and I have seen it on other motors.

I still think he will find crap in the carb that was associated with the cyl that failed.

HOWEVER, he is bound and determined that the VRO did it, I wonder if we will get the real truth?????

OP, there's your challenge...give us the real skinny....
 

jiffyboat

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

the cylinder was very hot , but I was able to touch it with my hand and no burn the skin , so I think that it wasn't that hut to the point that the buzz will go off, definitely hotter than the post side, if one cylinder seize , eventually the head gets hot, because to much friction, do to, no lubrication, I didn't have time to check the carbs today, but will do it tomorrow , I really would like to find some crap in the carb, and have to say .... you guys are right , and I'm wrong... but something I know for sure, never sow the spark plugs , of a two stroke so dry, like a car... there need to be some sight of oil in the plugs , or there is no oils in the fuel.. I will post tomorrow about the carbs.... and yes all three carbs are fed by single output.
 

jiffyboat

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

ok gays this is what I found , pulled the carbs, and found that there was water inside the carbs, the bottom one had like half , water-fuel, the middle one like 1/4 water - 3/4 fuel, and the top one almost no water.... so is obvious ,that I have water in the tank, and because the fuel pump, fed the three carbs though out the balance tube , see imag.. part # 39, the water will eventually goes more to the bottom , so I think thats the reason why there was more water in the lower carb , one more time the water stays at the bottom of the carb... and of course , just injecting water into the cylinder.... but still , when I pulled the head,... why the upper cylinder that had almost no water was so dry , like the bottom one, I couldn't feel any any sight of lubrication when touching the cylinder with my fingers, I think it was a combination of bought ... water and no oil,
http://www.**********/images/diagrams/brp/IMAGES/5001023/EPC0583.pngEPC0583.jpg
 

Faztbullet

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Of course, all 6 cylinders would be denied lubrication. But they are fueled by six different jets and venturi. It is very unlikely that all six would have exactly the same fuel air mix and would croak in unison.
Yes but the jets get their fuel supply from a common bowl ,not like a Mercury with separate bowl for each jet. If it was a lube problem all 6 cylinders would show scuffing of some sort until friction caused one or more to fail. I have seen several VRO's fail over the years and all cylinders will have some sort of damage. I had a NEW VRO/OMS pump fail 3 years ago on a reman powerhead and BRP requested the pump. I sent it in and it was tested by a outside source and both the alarm and oil section FAILED with no alert. BRP replaced the powerhead with one from Riverside in Arkansas anlong with new VRO/OMS pump.
 

daselbee

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Well....keep digging...you will eventually conclude exactly what caused this...

Could very well be the water....quite likely....except, why did it run so good? Your thread title "My good firingJohnny 150"...if it was so full of water in the fuel...why was it running so good?

Mystery....

EDIT: Oh yeah...which cylinder was it that had zero compression...I don't see where you posted this...
 

JB

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

I can't count the failures that "cannot happen" I have dealt with in my life, Faztbullet. The challenge is to figure out how they could anyway.

That doesn't mean they actually did, but it is part of reaching understanding in depth of how failures that cannot happen in basic theory can in fine details.
 

jiffyboat

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

the very bottom starboard cylinder, that was the one with 0 psi, I opened the power head today, and the piston was in very bad shape, hopefully I think the cylinder can be reused, I already ordered a .030 piston and rings, should get it on monday , and have it running by Tuesday , will post on tuesday, will also clean the carbs just to be sure and flush the fuel tank, and install a water separator, that this boat doesn't have one.. my bad..any other advice .. thanks for all the comments
 

Chris1956

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

So is it fair to say the OMS pump did it's job and added oil to the water/gasoline mix in your fuel tank and pumped it to the carbs? The oil mixed with the gasoline and floated on top of the water and only water was sent to the carbs?
 

daselbee

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Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Re: My good firingJohnny 150 got hurt after anthere oil pump fail

Very bottom stbd...that's #5.....and is fed by the bottom carb, which is the one that had the most water......

Hey...just an aside....how are you getting the machining done so quickly? You have to have it bored for a .030 over piston....

You own or work in a machine shop? Just wondering.

Oh, and thanks for reporting the true skinny....
 
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