Name This Woody

timmeraw

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I just purchased this wooden boat that was in a barn for the last 40 years or so. The guy told me he has a registration but he is still looking for it. He said it was a 55 Thompson. I am starting to doubt that. You'll notice that someone wanted to match the look of his tow vehicle and crafted a set of fins for the back.....I took them off. The boat is just under 14 long..is molded mahogany ply on the hull and cedar stip planking on the top.

http://s688.photobucket.com/albums/vv241/tmeraw/TK Before/

Any ideas out there...I am cross-eyed from searching the web for anything similar. Wavemaker Wolverine comes closest but I have not seen any boats with this unique cedar plank pattern(see pics). By the way...the white lines are also the previous owners handmade addition. Once sanded they are gone.
 

Chinewalker

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Re: Name This Woody

It was possible back in those days to buy a bare moulded plywood hull and finish it off yourself, so it is entirely feasible that the hull could be a Wagemaker-made hull blank and then someone added the decking and interior. I've never seen a deck pattern like that aft of the foredeck....
 

MikDee

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Re: Name This Woody

It looks like a molded plywood Wolverine, or Wagemaker?
 

HAV2FISH

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Re: Name This Woody

I cant tell you what type of boat it is. But it's going to look sharp when done. Nice find.
 

timmeraw

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Re: Name This Woody

Ok....I have had several people responding to this and other inquiries I have out there that it appears to be a Wagermaker/Wolverine. I sure wish I could find any kind of indication on the boat itself and the registration I am getting with it says Thompson 55 ...which I don't believe it is. I was removing the last remaining parts(seized up steering wheel column) and realized that an additional piece of plywood had been installed over the original to support the steering wheel. Of course I was dearly hoping that on the original dash there would be a nice brass manufacturer plate or something...BUT ...alas...nothing.

Another question....I am looking for a period motor to get united with the old green "Johnson Ship Master" controls that were still on it....what is the max hp I should be considering for this old transom(33hp?). It is 1.5 inches ply and appears to be in really solid condition.

So many questions left to answer but the restore is coming along wonderfully and the inner beauty is starting to emerge. It also appeared to have a windshield as there are two holes on the decking. Of course without knowing what it is I cannot begin a search for a replacement.
Have a great day.
Tim
 

Chinewalker

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Re: Name This Woody

Hi Tim,
The motor that would match the controls would be a 1955 Johnson 25hp.
As for restoring it - being that it is looking like it was a Wolverine blank, you can make it pretty much anything you want. If you can find an actual Wolverine to take pics of you can probably make it into what it would have been had it not been sold unfinished.
- Scott
 

timmeraw

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Re: Name This Woody

Thanks Scott,


Though I still have not received the documentation(registration) and I doubt I will get an actual NY State boat registration, do you think that the Wakemaker company may have indeed sold the hull to Thompson who put the wrap around cedar decking on it? This was certainly not a homemade add on.....unlike the Chevy-like fins I have removed and besides a couple of small holes, there is no sign of them every being there.

Tim
 

gcboat

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May 29, 2007
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Re: Name This Woody

The blemishes might react to either a paste of oxalic acid and water or just plain ole' bleach. Either way you do plan on restaining and varnishing ?
Just a short note - in a small area test the acid and water slurry on that first. It's not going to hurt the wood but just might cause a delamination issue if it is glued.
I just can't wait to see that finished !!!!!! ;):D
 

timmeraw

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Re: Name This Woody

Thanks for the ideas and I will try it out soon as I am getting close to that point. As for the inside of the hull.....I surely wish I had a couple hundred hours to remove the old paint but will probably just get it down as far as possible(too bad really because as you can see in the pictures...the paint is pretty much gone on most of the floor after a couple of powerwashings, but it holding fast higher up and under the deck etc.....question...what color(and paint type) is the norm for those restoring these old wooden boats? Of course I will preface with a good coat of primer of some sort.

Thanks,
Tim
 

timmeraw

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Re: The Mystery is Unravelling

Re: The Mystery is Unravelling

Today I went back to the place I had purchased the boat to pick up the documentation. As you can imagine I was anxious to see what was on it. Along with the standard DMV forms for sale/transfer etc was a plastic card issued by the State of Ny Conservation Dept Division of Motor Boats Albany. It says Certificate of Boat Registration. Has the original owners name(the guy that owned the farm for 50 years) and the guess what it lists for the Boat information?
1955 Thompson length 15', outboard, gas. Apparently the registration number on here matches what was painted on the hull before I removed it and the varnish etc.

Now the plot thickens. I asked the guy if he'd mind if I poked around in the various labrynth of rooms in the barn to see if I could find any stray boat stuff and he said sure.

First I came across a small box with a stern light, bow spotlight, compass, and hooray...the missing matching piece of aluminum strip from the back corner of the boat

I pressed on while the owner helped me poke around and he came across a big chunk of mahogany which appeared to be a seat back(I brought it home but it was not for this boat but useable perhaps. He left and said I could look around to my hearts content...which I was happy to do.

In another room in the barn where a tractor was parked...there was a huge white-washed wooden barn or shed door leaning up against the wall in the corner. When I pulled it back I couldn't believe my eyes...Here was a center deck that appeared to be about a perfect fit width wise across the middle of my boat, sure enough I recognized that same cedar planking on the top...it had to be. I brought it home and it pretty much fits right in and was surely an original part of this boat. It curriously had a handle at one end and underneath a knotched lever so I propose that one end was hinged and it could be lifted up for passage to and from the bow of the boat. It has a hole in the center that I assume was for the original steering position which makes sense as I look ahead at the original dash there is not hole for a steering wheel.

See the newest pictures here of my new find...what a great birthday present indeed.

http://s688.photobucket.com/albums/vv241/tmeraw/?newest=1

Does anyone think that Thompson made a formed mahogany ply boat in 1955 with the center deck like this?
 

MikDee

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Re: Name This Woody

Yes, I do believe that Thompson had molded plywood boats way back then, but didn't wanna admit to it, till you did some checking,,, Thompson was always a well made boat, I had a couple of 16' Lapstrake models in the late 50's. One more thing, I always opted for center deck steering, as it was originally on my boats, it seems most small boats are better balanced this way, it keeps the bow up when sitting still, or riding, better for staying above the waves, & it's dryer riding! ;)
 

Chinewalker

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Re: Name This Woody

Might want to try it in the Wooden Boats forum at FiberGlassics.com as I think there's a guy named Andreas Jordahl Rhude who's gung-ho on Thompsons there. His handle is ThompsonBoat.

Boy, with the add-ons removed and the center-deck in there it's looking pretty good!

- Scott
 

jay_merrill

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5,653
Re: Name This Woody

DON'T SAND THIS BOAT WITH POWER TOOLS!!!!!

Your boat is cold molded, which means that it is plywood that was formed as it was built. It is a series of thin mahogany veneers and you can sand through the top layer easily. If you do, you will end up with a "ring" where you have worn through to the next layer, which will have been layed up in the opposite direction to the top layer.

Strip the boat and hand sand it to avoid this problem!
 

timmeraw

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Re: Name This Woody

Jay,

Thanks for the advice and I am fully aware of the danger of going thru the thin layer of veneer. I am using a palm sander with 120 grit paper and very tediously working my way thru the varnish/shellac or whatever and being very careful not to go too deeply. It is working out nicely and I nearly have the whole boat done with only one small spot at the bow that was thin and i went thru in a spot a half inch in diameter that I can hopefully fix with stain.

If I can bleach/stain the multitude of black spots(found quite a few staples in the veneer actually, then it will come up nicely with a bunch of coats of good varnish.
 

timmeraw

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Another New Update:

Another New Update:

Boy it has been a good day. Besides finding a bunch of other original boat parts in the barn it came out of(especially the center deck) ...tonight I picked up the exact same '56 Johnson 25 that was rusting away in the barn and was on the boat originally. It is all original and in very good condition. Though hasn't been running , it has good compression and everything looks to be in good shape. I even got a pressurized tank and hose to go with it. Now I'll go back and get the original in case there are any useable parts but I somehow doubt it....maybe the prop and cotter pin :).
Happy birthday to me.

Night,
Timmy
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Name This Woody

Jay,

Thanks for the advice and I am fully aware of the danger of going thru the thin layer of veneer. I am using a palm sander with 120 grit paper and very tediously working my way thru the varnish/shellac or whatever and being very careful not to go too deeply. It is working out nicely and I nearly have the whole boat done with only one small spot at the bow that was thin and i went thru in a spot a half inch in diameter that I can hopefully fix with stain.

If I can bleach/stain the multitude of black spots(found quite a few staples in the veneer actually, then it will come up nicely with a bunch of coats of good varnish.

That spot is exactly why sanding is not the way to go. What's done is done, however. I was hoping to grab your attention before this happened, but I guess I was too late.

You have probably found that you have what looks like a double ring where you went through the outside layer. This is formed by the worn through wood and the layer of resorcinol glue that was used to build these boats. It sounds like you are going to bleach or stain in very small areas, just to cover imperfections, and that is probably all you can do.

The staples are part of the construction method. These boats were built by putting the side rails, the keel and the transom together first. This was done with the boat upside down and the usual procedure was to then take strips of about 6" in width and glue/staple them around a form to the keel and rails, at a 45 degree angle to the keel. A layer of glue was them applied to the already installed veneer and the next layer was laid up, at the opposite 45 degree angle. The staples were used to keep everything in place while the glue cured.

While this construction method resulted in a very strong, very light and very pretty boat, if the varnish was not kept in top condition over the years, you get the kind of damage to the wood that you have described. Also, since the varnish probably wasn't kept up on your boat, I suggest looking for rot in the areas where the cold molded hull meets the frame members and the transom. The area of the transom/hull joint is one that can be a likely candidate for this problem.

I have owned a couple of Whirlwind cold molded boats (built in Cockysville, MD) and really like them. I don't have one now because there are too many obstructions in the water where I now live. Unfortunately, such a pretty boat wouldn't survive long here.

One of the things that you will find out, if you don't have rot/glue separation issues, is that cold molded boats are extremely strong. I once found myself six feet in the air in one of mine, after having to climb over a rouge wave at the mouth of a breachway in Rhode Island. It was one of those situations where I was either going to get rolled over backwards, or climb the face of the wave and get over it. I made it over the top, but ended up suspended in air as the wave passed. I dropped like a stone and slammed into the water harder than I would have imagined the boat could take. It not only held together, but didn't suffer any damage at all!

On power, I agree that a mid fifties OMC 25hp motor would be great. Either a Bigtwin or a Seahorse would be just the ticket. Depending on how fast you want to go, a 15hp or 18hp motor of that era would also push it. Since the boats are flat bottomed, with a rounded chine, and are also very light, they plane without alot of power.

The first Whirlwind that I owned was my grandfather's boat and it was passed on to me when he died. His was a fourteen foot '58 model and it originally had an 18hp ERude on it. I remember the boat doing quite well with that motor and he didn't move up to a bigger motor, until we grew as kids and wanted to water ski. At that point, he put a Johnson 28hp on it and then a Chrysler 35hp. The last motor that I had on it was a mid sixties 40hp Johnson. I don't know how fast it went with the 40hp, because that was long before the days of accurate checking of speed with a GPS, but I would guess about the mid to high 30s.

Congratulations on your find - you're going to really like that boat. Not only will it be pretty, but it will be a very economical and functional boat.
 

timmeraw

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258
Re: Back to Square One.

Re: Back to Square One.

Turns out it may not be a Thompson after all. Here is a response that I got back from Andreas Rhude...Thompson expert. The mystery continues. I did find the home number of the orginal owner of the farm/boat and just left a voice message. Hopefully he can fill in the blanks.

Hi Tim,

Thanks for contacting me.

Nope, she is NOT a boat made by any of the Thompson family of boat builders: Thompson Bros. Boat Mfg. Co.; Thompson Boat Company of New York, Inc.; Thompson Royal-Craft, Inc.; T & T Boats, Inc.; Cruisers, Inc. and Grady-White Boats. None of these firms ever made or sold molded veneer boats.

Some builders of molded veneer boats were: Wolverine, Carver, Chetek (for about their first year of business 1947-48), Dunphy, MiloCraft, Delta Boat, Whirlwind, etc... Carver's brochures are available on line on the company website.

On page 153 of "The Real Runabouts Volume IV" by Mr. Bob Speltz there is a listing of such boat builders. Plus many chapters on selected builders. You can get this book at many libraries and thru inter library loan if your library does not have it. Or it can be purcahsed at www.acbs.org

Also, firms like US Molded Shapes in Grand Rapids, MI and Industrial Shipping in Canada made molded veneer hulls which were then sold to other boat makers. The purchaser would add the seating and decks and transom, etc... and finish off the blank hulls. This was pretty common.

I might be attending the Finger Lakes classic boat show at Skaneateles, NY 25 July.

I suggest you get involved with your local chapter of the Antique & Classic Boat Society www.acbs.org. It is a great means to learn about vintage boats.
 

timmeraw

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Re: Name This Woody

Well I finally spoke with the guy that owned the farm that I found the boat stored in the barn at. He told me that his father was the original owner and he brought it back from Florida in about 1962 to this area. He thought that his dad didn't buy it new and really didn't give me any hints about its real providence beyond the fact that it was last used in 66 and stored in the barn ever since. I asked him about any other parts that might be still in the barn and he mentioned the 1 foot wide piece of wood(center deck) that I already discovered on my last trip back to the barn.

I guess I will have to keep looking but I think that the key may be the unique decking with the cedar planking in the vertical pattern on the deck and angular on the side decks.

I have had a couple of other suggestions about maybe Dundee or Tomahawk or Thomlinson.

The search goes on. Anybody else ever seen this decking on a molded plywood boat? Note that the white lines are handpainted.

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv241/tmeraw/TK Before/P1010008.jpg
 
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