Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

[Bikevouwer]

Okay name is John and i reside in the Netherlands Europe I'm 46 years old and just bought my first fixer-upper.
Bought a Chrysler 20HP outboard model 205HB, engine was set aside for at least 2 years.
Bought the engine real cheap and trying to get it running again, things ive done so far are, freed seized pistons,put in a new ignition switch.
Have a fresh battery standing next to it and the starter-motor turns the engine nicely round with a powerful motion, Only thing i don't have is a spark, both spark-plugs refuse to spark.
Engine looks great,compression is okay, so i think its points/condensators (tune-up kit?)
Before i start dismantling the top end i would like to know if anyone else has any idea's on the not firing part?
Thanks John

 

[fucawi]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

I have almost the same motor here in UK ...take off the flywheel and clean the points ..set to 20 thou and that is your most likley problem ..dont spend money on new points or codenser ..you may not need them and all can be replaced with electronics for little money you can find manual at
http://rapidshare.com/files/45337254...sler_20-25.pdf

let me know if you need more help ....

 

[Bikevouwer]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

I.am real curious how to make the electronics conversion can you tell me more about that ?

The link provided is not working !

And what is the best way to get the flywheel off ? i have a manual but it doesnt say how to remove the alternator fro, the top and i dont want to hit the crank with a big hammer!!
Thanks John

 

[fucawi]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

Ahh you have the one with the dyna start ..thats the only one I dont like !! Special proceedure to remove dynastart I understand only one nut ..I am sure I have read it on these pages .do a search
do a search for SwampThing he has a post called " 1984-1999 force &chrysler manuals" and the link works fine on there ....( the 20 hp is 69-76 manual) Chrysler 20-25 hp 1969 - 1976



TRY THIS ONE works for me ..click on the green download box below the blue TV
https://rs895tl2.rapidshare.com/#!d...df|910|R~F48ADACAC88D854F127084E0ABF0D088|0|0

 

[Bikevouwer]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

Yep i got the one with the dyna-start wich works flawless i must say,still don't know how to remove the stator from the top end and it looks like it cannot handle much force so i want to be absolutely sure what I'm doing before i get to it, in order to don't get the parts fubar.
all the help is much appreciated by the way !!
thanks John

 

[fucawi]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

the link I posted has the right information ..as you can see its one bolt underneath the cover that holds it all together ..no crankshsft nut as such.

I dont think you mean Fubar more Fubb....

 

[Bikevouwer]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

I removed the bolt, but the stator wont move, and it looks to fragile to place a pry-bar underneath it. So i am in a bit of a dilemma what to do, ill sleep over it and figure out what to do.
Again thanks for all the help provided!
John

 

[Bikevouwer]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

finally got the stator off,stator housing is set aside too, tried to get a spark today but we all know electricity is made of smoke, and when the smoke escapes, we all know thats when electric components stop working, as is the case at the moment.
Seriously, on the connector block there where 2 wires coming out from the ignition coils, in the diagram they are called stator leads, as far as i know anything of ignitions i know there has to be a power source connected to the stator leads in order to get a spark, in the diagram its the blue wire coming from the ignition switch, thats where it went wrong, connected the blue wire with the stator leads,and after a little while smoke appeared and that burned electrical smell we all know.
So figuring the whole darn thing is toast, i got at it with blocks of wood (tapered) to get the stator off and that worked well, stator cam off, housing came off, flywheel came off and there is that piece off S..t ignition, both points looked real nasty, condensers turned out okay after some measuring, one coil reads 7.39 kilo-ohms the other coil reads 0.0 so thats the one who's bad.
So its best to change out both coils and thats the way i want to go, that is if they are available somewhere.
So looking for points, condensers, and more importantly 2 coils.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
thanks John

 

[fucawi]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

learn how to post photos and dont experiment with the wiring until you talk to me ....does this unit have a magneto or coils ??? I thought it had a magneto..everything I am reading says magneto ..NO battery required .if you connected one you could easily have buggered it ..the energy comes from the magnets...Disconnect the coils totally and measure from thin input wire to earth should be about 0.3 ohm from HT lead to earth 2-5000ohms ( varies with model) ...Your meter may show more than 0.3ohm but join the wires and subtract that from the reading ...ie 0.5-0.2 = 0.3.
Those wires comming off the coils are joined to stop the engine ..otherwise go nowhere other than to the stop switch...

 

[Bikevouwer]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

According to this schematics there has to be a white and a blue lead connected to the ignition coils
so when i turn the the key the red lead transfers power trough the ignition switch onto the blue and white lead setting 12 volts onto the coils,
There is no other way to read this wiring diagram
john

 

[fucawi]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

John Listen.....read this multiple times until you understand..
The white and blue do not or should not go to the battery ..ignition switch yes but not 12v

Thanks for the photographs you sent me via PM

Your ignition is a magneto ..it does not need a battery .the engergy for the spark comes from the spinning magnets in the flywheel. The two wires are just joined by the switch in the off positon to stop the engine.

The battery is only there to work the dynastart and then to be re charged for accessories and re starting. The engine will start with no battery if you rope pull it ...

So do this ....disconnect the red wires that come out your coils and measure from red wire to earth should be 0.3 ohm Measure from ht lead to earth should be a few thousand ohms.
remove any connectors as these may be open circuit. If coils do not pass then they can be slid off the E core and replaced.. Your best source of parts is another 20 25 or 30 hp engine which you buy cheap.
Once you have the coils good clean the contacts and replace the condensers ..car ones are fine 0.25 uf but make sure they cannot break loose.
Dont spend any money until you are sure of the following...
Examine the pistons throgh the plug holes and by taking off the exhaust side chamber..check the compression ..you may have scored piston etc and not worth mending.
Take off the lower unit and examine the water pump check the impeller and the housing ..you must have this working 100% or you waste your time with the engine.
Check the gears work.

I have put you the manual for the 35 hp on below which has some better diagrams of magneto than the old 20 hp manual you have
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=464459
also some photo of good and bad water pump.
Good luck and you have my e mail address but answers will be on here or I never get to be Admiral !!!

 

[Bikevouwer]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

Fucawi i have been reading you're reply and totally understand now.
From measurements with my Fluke multimeter set on resistance these are the outcomes.
Top cilinder from red wire to ground measures 0.7 Ohm
Top cilinder from red wire to spark plug measures nothing (coil is shot)
Bottom cilinder from red wire to ground measures 0.7 Ohm
Bottom cilinder from red wire to ground measures 7.22 Kilo Ohm


Bottom piston and cylinder looks good not much carbon build up either


Top piston and cylinder looks like the bottom one, both are in fair condition in my opinion, compression is excellent on both cylinders.


Measuring the coils !


Picture of the actual ignition, and yes i know there is a piece missing on one of the points, i just snapped it off when i got the ignition from outside.

All pictures are clickable!!

 

[fucawi]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

So both coil primary are good ....0.7 is ok as you have the resistance of the fluke leads.
ON the bad coil ...stick your probe in through the ht lead ( or use a needle) near the coil ..other side on earth or red.....you may have a bad HT lead ..if you can get reading near the coil its Ok ....needs new lead splicing in.. If still no reading then the coil is bad . But you did not damage it .It must have been bad when you bought it. It is still cheapest to buy another motor ..I only paid ?26 ( $40 ) for mine a 30 hp
The pump in the last photo I sent was re built by me ..not too far/expensive to send it from holland if you cannot get one in good shape.
Remember the coil can be removed without the E core (or from the E core) I think its in the 35 hp manual how to do it ...tab to bend back ...Best to keep the original E core as may be machined to match the magnet ..the gap is important...

let me know by e mail if you need more help cannot guarantee to check this site more than once a day ....e mail is monitored every 30 min for business reasons....

Great progress..you do not need to host photos ..go advanced ..attachments and this site does it for you ....

 

[Bikevouwer]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

Measured again but the coil is shot, found a replacement coil thats cheaper than an entire second hand engine so i'am going with that one.
I know about the pictures but its easier for myself to outsource the pictures
thanks again
John

 

[fucawi]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

Thats fine but do you want a share it this lot ..currently 99p ..I could send you ign /dynastart /gearbox/ prop/carb ..quite cheap. I will have the 25 hp ? #then keep all the other bits in case you want them ....

france .belgium holland ..too far from the tunnel to meet up !

 

[fucawi]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

I understand what you say about fitting coils from snow mobile etc but these incorperate electronics within the coil module ...Even if possible the timing will change ..not good.
Only other option is to make it battery igniton ..forget the magneto coils ..just use the contacts with two external coils ...I have some 12v ones made in India which are small versions of a standard igniton coil intended for motorbikes. Remember a 12v coil has a primary resistance of 3 ohms ....beware coils marked 12v which are in fact 6v for use with a ballast resistor..your contacts would not last long ( they have 1.5 ohm pirimary) The ones I have are Lucas MA12 ..the std size is HA12 ..too big .
I have just found these on e bay at ?14 ea they are for BSA motorbike

 

[Bikevouwer]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

Fucawi,
I have just bought myself three new coils for the amount of 50 dollars.
check out the ebay listing, its a steal.
There is a replacement coil made by cdi the number is cdi 185-2370 and that coil is a replacement for the coils i just bought i did the research so i know i'm good with this
John


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...viewitem=&_trkparms=clkid=3381580991694154441

 

[fucawi]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

I note the guy does not ship outside the USA ..I have friend in PA who will ship them on to you ..e mail me for his address if you need it ..he could slide the coils off The E cores to lighten the package......great job will be running soon .

 

[Bikevouwer]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

Thanks for the offer Fucawi but got that end covered very well.
went into the guts of the outboard to look at the impeller and that looks great almost no wear onto impeller and pump housing so alls good in there.



I am just looking for some breaker points now and any help or directions to get them would be appreciated very much
Thanks John

 

[fucawi]

Re: Need help with 20HP Chrysler outboard

impeller looks good ..nobbly bits on end of vanes not worn .Clarly it has set..I leave mine out over the winter. Provided its still supple should be fine ..make sure you fit a tell tail as its the only long term way to know your pump is good ..Would like to see a photo of the pump housing as all the ones I have are corroded to bugggery.

Have sent you the link to the electronic igniton /magneto contact replacement circuitry. Will be posting about this on here soon once I have a few hours on it