Need help with wiring on 12/24 volt TM

BelewsBoater

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Below is what I posted on other fishing forum. Not getting a reply day before yesterday. Figure I would get more help on here. Trying to get it fixed asap.

"The motor is Motorguide Brute 756 with 12/OFF/24 switch on foot control. The male plug is 3 wires black, red and white...four 6-gauge wires hooked up to female end (red, black, red w/blue stripes, black w/blue stripes) the wires goes all the way to the back hooked up to 2 deep cycle batteries.

When I put red and black to battery 1 & red/blue and black/blue to battery 2, it runs on 12v when the switch was set to 24V mode. Flip the switch to 12V mode, doesn't work.

So, I tried other way, plain red on pos. post on battery 1 and plain black on neg. post on battery 2...leaving both blue stripes wires unhooked..using 6 gauge jumper from neg. battery 1 to pos. battery 2, with the meter on pos. and neg. it reads above 24V while the mode is set on 24V but does not spin the prop? Then rehooked the blue stripes wires to the batteries and unhooked the plain red and black wires, with jumper cable, it works, prop spins.

I bought the boat last summer and the whole time I've been using the TM on the lake I thought it was running on 24V but it was on 12V even the mode was on 24"

The reply was....

"you don't say what plug you have. Is it a "molded" plug with the wires permantly attached and using butt splices to connect, or is it one that the wires connect to the plug with screw connections. Also, do you have breakers on the two positive wires. The red and the red/blue are positive. What gauge wires do you have. It should be written on the wires. What thrust, you said 12/24V but I didn't catch the thrust.

All these questions will help troubleshoot. The "right" hookup at your batteries is red and black on battery one and red/blue and black/blue on the battery two. Should be an internal jumper in the plug that provides a 24V jump so you don't need a jumper wire in the back. You should have a breaker on the red wire and on the red/blue wire. If one of these breakers is tripped, you wouldn't have one of the sides (12 or 24V). On a volt meter, if you read the two "outside" terminals (black and red/blue) you will get 24V. If you read black to red or black to black/blue, or black/blue to red/blue, or red/blue to red you should show 12V. The red connects to the black/blue through the plug. Hope this helps, John"

My reply.....

"6 gauge. 56# thrust.
No, just one breaker on red/blue wire.
Does it have internal jumper? I have no idea.
Breaker is on the red/blue wire not on the red one. With the "right" hook up like you said, would the red wire without breaker caused it not to work? Does it really make a difference to have one for the red wire, too?

Image attached. Any idea?
 

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Texasmark

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Re: Need help with wiring on 12/24 volt TM

I have about the same MG motor (65#) and have 3 wires as you said. Mine is foot controlled with a 12 off 24 selector switch on the side of the foot pedal and a dial for speed selection. From memory:

To get 24V operation, you have to stack the batteries in series (going from ground - to + with the upper batt - connected to the + of the lower one, and one + at the top of the upper battery for 24 volts).

You only have 3 wires coming from the TM to it's plug and the direction, voltage, and speed are all internally controlled. So all you need is 1 ref, 1ea 12v (to the ref) input, and 1ea 24v (to the ref).....doesn't matter what the color code is as long as you get the wires hooked up right (obviously Grin).

I don't know about all that wiring but if you only have 3 wires in the TM plug, then you only need 3 wires to feed it, all 6 AWG or better: One ground (black on mine), one at the interface of the lower batt and the upper batt (I think I remember that being the Orange on mine), and one to the top battery top which would be the Red on mine.

Since each battery could be shorted out accidentally, both the Red and Orange wires need 40 amp fuses and at the battery terminal, (inline fuse) is the place to do it.

If you don't mind, I'm going to be busy this AM, but later today I will go and check my wiring and tell you first hand what works.

I just took another quick look at this (before I left) and possibly the boat mfgr sent two SETS of wires forward, one for each battery I'd assume so that you would have 12v available forward for other things to be run off the TM batteries if you desired...like lights or a forward mount dept finder, or power for a forward mounted trim switch. So I'd guess Red/Blk wires were to one batt and adding the white stripe to both for the other. In that case, all you have to do up forward is connect one of the blacks to one of the reds (one non striped to the other with a stripe) which will be your 12v power source, using the black and red (one of them striped) left for your reference (gnd, motor - terminal whatever) and the other for your 24v connection. Just be sure and observe your polarity stackup as I mentioned earlier.

Will get back later.

Mark
 
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BelewsBoater

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Re: Need help with wiring on 12/24 volt TM

Thanks Mark.

This morn I was told to take the male plug apart to see if there is a jumper in it. Couldn't believe what I was seeing. The jumper was fried and split in half. Hopefully that was the problem all along.

The TM that came with the boat I bought last summer. The previous owner must have had it connected the wrong way at one time and blew the jumper.

Though I couldn't locate anywhere that carry a jumper piece but whole set of plug.
 

Silvertip

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Re: Need help with wiring on 12/24 volt TM

On some of the bass boats, two sets of wires were indeed run up front, with each battery having a dedicated pair. At the bow, those four wires were connected to a four pole receptacle in some cases, or to a switch panel that had a 12/24 run, off 12x2 charge switch. That switch provided the ability to charge both batteries through the connector with a single charger. The receptacle in those cases may have had a three or four pole connector. The motor wires measure as follows: Red-ground = 24 volts, orange-ground= 12 volts. On the motor plug as you found out, the series connection that would normally occur at the battery on a three or two wire 24 volt system, is handled by the jumper wire in the troller plug. This configuration is normally used when there is no separate switch panel at the bow.
 

BelewsBoater

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Re: Need help with wiring on 12/24 volt TM

On the motor plug as you found out, the series connection that would normally occur at the battery on a three or two wire 24 volt system, is handled by the jumper wire in the troller plug.

So your saying I shouldn't connect the batteries in series without the jumper in the plug? I stripped all the 3 wires and reinstalled in the plug, removed the fried internal jumper. Its working fine without it because I'm using 2 instead of 4 6awg wires hooked in series. Is this OK? If not then I'll hold off until I replace a new plug with built in jumper to use all the 4 wires.
 

Silvertip

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Re: Need help with wiring on 12/24 volt TM

No! I'm saying IF you currently have four wires going up front AND no switch panel AND you have a FOUR terminal receptacle you MUST have the jumper in the plug IF you intend to be able to run the motor on 12 or 24 volts. If you will ALWAYS use 24 volts, then you have the option of using only TWO wires from the batteries (red and black) and a jumper between the two batteries. At the receptacle you only need two terminals. You do not need the jumper in the plug. You use ONLY the red and black motor wires and you only need to match up the two plug terminals to the receptacle terminals. 12 volt operation will not work. That plug jumper, 4 wires, and the 12/24 switch all work together to provide 12 volt operation. Wired the way you have it cannot provide 12 volts because you have 24 to the motor via the red and black wires. Ditch the jumper. All you need to do is match the two plug and receptacle terminals and leave the motor switch on 24 volts. Go fishing.
 

Texasmark

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Re: Need help with wiring on 12/24 volt TM

Well Belews you now know the whole story and when you repair the jumper, you will have your seriesed point for your 24 volt system that I mentioned.

Silvertip, thanks for coming to my rescue. Ovbiously you have seen more variations than I have and having a forward plug for battery charging certainly gives a boat designer a reason to send 4 wires forward.

You know, and I'm sure you do, working on boats as a professional mechanic has got to be as hair-raising an experience as being a professional mechanic at a farm tractor dealership.....you never know what you are going to get into, nor why...well you probably know some of the why's....owners/previous mechanic's lack of knowledge, lack of parts, better way to skin the cat, mood at the time.............

Mark
 
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