Need prop advice due to gear change

oldseaox

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
49
Have a Merc 150 (2 stroke) on a 200 (2 stroke) lower unit, works well EXCEPT cannot now run WOT as before. Should be able to run 5000-5500 rpm but get 4600 at best. 150 LU was 2,00-1 gear and 200 LU is 1.87-1.
Boat normally is 3400-3600 lbs (20.5 ft wa) loaded. Current prop is 15,5x15 as came with LU.
I am considering a 16x13 and looking for advice. My props are alu.
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Need prop advice due to gear change

What prop did you have on the old lower unit and what was WOT RPM and speed.

H
 

wca_tim

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,708
Re: Need prop advice due to gear change

assuming that you're going with a similar prop design, you're going to want to go down in pitch... as in to 14 pitch. maye even 13. diameter isn't as important as long as you don't get much smaller or bigger either one.

2:1 to 18.7:1 isn't a very big difference. did you change the prop shaft height in the process? or anything else? it shouldn't have made that large of a difference in rpm simply based on the change in gear....
 

oldseaox

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
49
Re: Need prop advice due to gear change

Orig LU allowed 5300 with 15x15 alu prop, speed not measured( don't have speedo). One more thing, just rebuilt fuel pump and carbs and now can get 4950 at wot. Would a 13 be too much, maybe a 14?
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Need prop advice due to gear change

My experience with non Mercury built Force, and Chrysler engines---and I don't know if it would hold true for Mercury, and don't say it will, so take it as you will.

If changing from a 2 to 1 gear ratio lower unit to a 1.73 to 1 lower, you must drop down 2 pitches. For example, 19 to 17 pitch with the same diameter prop.

With this change, the theoretical top speed at maximum RPM (let's say 5500) is the same BUT in use, the engine actually delivers about 3 - 5 MPH less, even though engine the RPM is close to the same.

Conversely, changing from a 1.73 to 1 ratio to a 2 to 1 and going up 2 pitches will usually result in 3-5 MPH more top speed.

I suspect that parasitic drag from turning the lower pitch prop faster through the water rersults in more horsepower needed just to turn the prop and less horsepower available to drive the boat forward. Thus, slip with the lower pitched prop is greater.
 

wca_tim

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
1,708
Re: Need prop advice due to gear change

My experience with non Mercury built Force, and Chrysler engines---and I don't know if it would hold true for Mercury, and don't say it will, so take it as you will.

If changing from a 2 to 1 gear ratio lower unit to a 1.73 to 1 lower, you must drop down 2 pitches. For example, 19 to 17 pitch with the same diameter prop.

With this change, the theoretical top speed at maximum RPM (let's say 5500) is the same BUT in use, the engine actually delivers about 3 - 5 MPH less, even though engine the RPM is close to the same.

Conversely, changing from a 1.73 to 1 ratio to a 2 to 1 and going up 2 pitches will usually result in 3-5 MPH more top speed.

I suspect that parasitic drag from turning the lower pitch prop faster through the water rersults in more horsepower needed just to turn the prop and less horsepower available to drive the boat forward. Thus, slip with the lower pitched prop is greater.

This is exactly why I run a 1.81 gear ratio and a 27 or 28 pitch prop on my play boat... it is faster with the higher gear and higher pitch. Note that some of the older powerboating articles clearly show that a prop pict of about 2x diameter is optimum at top speeds of 60+ mph...

In general, a prop is much like a gear with the pitch being the gear ratio. With the caveat that prop designs differ, etc.. you can get a really good idea of where to start with props after changing gears by using the simple numerical ratios: 1.87 / 2.0 x 15 = 14 (appproximate new pitch for original poster)
 

oldseaox

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
49
Re: Need prop advice due to gear change

Lots of stuff to consider and perhaps some trial and error. Based on your advice I am going to try both a 14 and a 13 pitch ( a friend races Mercs and has a few stock type props he will lend me ) also my Merc mech wants to raise the eng one hole and try that ( about 3/4 inch ) says it will take about 15 min at his shop.
Having said all that, I am going to be busy for a while making one change at a time and doing seatrials. I will report results for those interested.

Thanks folks
 

hwsiii

Commander
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
2,639
Re: Need prop advice due to gear change

Oldseaox, speed is directly proportional to shaft RPM but indirectly proportional to Motor RPM because of gear ratio. So that brings us to the change of a 1.87:1 gear ratio to a 2:1 gear ratio, the only thing that really matters is how many RPM the prop turns. Formula 1 shows your old theoretical speed of about 36 MPH with a prop slip of 10% calculated.
By appearances a change from 1.87:1 to a 2:1 gear ratio is only a loss of about 6.5% in theoretical tach RPM and that is exactly what your change in RPM from 5,300 to 4,950 RPM reflects, but since you have a 2:1 gear ratio it actually doubles the shaft RPM percentage change to 13%. It also encompasses a change in speed of about 4 MPH with a 10% Slip Factor, you are actually losing 359 Shaft RPM as well as 350 Tach RPM, it is mathematically proportional,Formula 1 and 2 shows this.
When you change from a 15" pitch to a 13" pitch you will gain about 550 RPM with the new 2:1 gear ratio and thus your Tach RPM will increase to about 5,500 RPM and you will have a gear shaft RPM increase of about 381, but you are now only turning 13" with each revolution of the prop shaft. Formula 3 shows the increase in Tach and Shaft RPM from the 15" to the 13".
It also shows a WOT Top speed loss of about 4 to 5 MPH because of the lower gear ratio change that requires a lower pitch prop to reach satisfactory RPM. This is the way your boat has reacted and will react to the change in your gear ratio. You need to purchase a 13" prop in the same manufacturer and model that you have now. By raising the motor a little it may help or hurt your performance, depending on how much prop slip you encounter with the aluminum prop versus a stainless steel that is more likely designed for increased prop height because of blade geometry, it just depends on how high your motor is now.

oldseaoxLowerunitchangeIboats.jpg



While I am at it, I will also state that the blade flex most people talk about with aluminum props at speeds lower than at least 45 MPH is not a viable statement, if it was then aluminum props would attain more Prop Slip as the speed and RPM increased because of the water pressure exerted on the blades at these speeds in a boat, and in fact that is NOT the case if you will study the prop slips of most boats with aluminum props. Because as the speed increases you will notice that the Prop Slip decreases all the way to WOT RPM, and if aluminum prop flex was true you would see Prop Slip go UP as the RPM went up not DOWN. The MAIN difference in aluminum and stainless steel props is in thinner blade thickness because of the difference in material strengths, which makes for less disturbance in the water flow between blades as they turn with stainless props, as the stainless blades are much thinner. And the MAJOR difference is in blade GEOMETRY of propellers built in stainless steel that is NOT incorporated into most aluminum propellers. The only props I know of in aluminum that have a LOT of blade geometry changes in them is the Turning Point Props and they certainly act more like stainless props than aluminum props.
There is a lot of talk here about the differences in stainless and aluminum propellers, but there is little talk about blade geometry other than the amount of rake that either increases bow lift or zero rake that is used for stern lifting. There is some talk about cupping as used for theoretical increases in pitch and for increasing stern lift, but hardly anything is ever mentioned about progressive pitch and rake and cupping at the prop tip to increase the rake and dynamic thrust.

H
 
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