New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

[Marshall69]

First off thanks for everyone's patience for my questions and please bear in mind these are my personal questions and opinions.

I keep coming back to this forum everytime I think I have figured it out - which boat to get. Here's my dilemma. I have read many reviews about the Smokercraft (new ones) and most are not favourable in terms of purchasing one of these boats (this is my statement based on everything that I have read on this and other forums). I fish in an inland lake (smaller) but would like the opportunity to take the boat some place else if it's a planned trip. My family cottage is really where the boat will stay most of the time. My budget is around 13k and I would like to get best bang for my buck and I don't mind waiting. I have found a 12 year old Lund Pro V with a 150 Opti with very low hours. A few "rust looking spots"around the back screws, however doesn't appear to be major. With the prices of a Smokercraft Pro Angler 161, for a little bit more I can get a new boat with full warranty. Crestliners and alumacrafts new seem to be well outside of my price comfort (and the wife's). Any other suggestions are welcome.

Here's what I will use if for: fishing with my father and small kids, fishing with wife and kids, bringing gear back and forth from marina to cottage. I can't afford to have a boat that won't be reliable. I also don't really care too much about storage.

My needs:

• has to be stable and not bounce around like a cork in water (kids will freak out)
• be able to handle smaller lakes with the ability to maybe go to larger
• seat 3 + (Kids can sit on the floor )
• I don't tournament fish so HP isn't too huge a deal
• side console (but interested in opinions)

My concern LUND

• Older boat (1 owner however)
• seems scratched and the "keel" has rub marks (probably not a big deal)
• larger HP, if I ever have to replace it I would have to sell my dog (j/k dog is my 3rd kid but doesn't like fishing out of a boat too much)
• Screws on back show minimal rust coloration

My Concern Smokercraft
what I view as general consensus on many boards.

I appreciate any and all feedback

 

[southkogs]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

How small are "smaller lakes" and what do you mean when you say "larger" water? You kinda' sound like a center console fishing boat with nice outboard on it may work really well. I know you said side console, but I'm not sure why you see that as an advantage.

Lund is a very good boat, but you buy 'em used on condition not the name.

 

[The Famous Grouse]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

I really don't see any problems with the Lund. The rust spots you mention are probably because something was attached using regular galvanized screws instead of stainless steel ones. It matters not a bit other than looking a little bad because the Lund is aluminum and therefore will not rust through as a car would.

You have to keep in mind that most boats suffer mainly from LACK of use. Very few boats wear out from use the way cars do. Unless the previous owner of the Lund was a professional guide or owned a fishing lodge, then the average angler will put a few dozen hours per year on his boat. That's like putting a few hundred miles a year on a car.

It is highly unlikely that you'd have to replace the Optimax anytime soon. I fish a lot and on my last bigwater boat (Crestliner Sportfish), I probably put 50-60 hours a year on the big motor. Again that's nothing. Run preimum oil, do your maintainance, and an Optimax can take thousands of hours.

Really, you have to take forums with a grain of salt when it comes to "brand reputations". Keep in mind, the average boat owner really lacks the experience to make broad comparisions because he owns one boat at a time. Therefore, you get a lot of people repeating what they've heard rather than giving you actual experience.

I've owned Lund, Alumacraft, and Crestliners and I've fished each of them for hundreds of days. They are all good boats.

Grouse

 

[Marshall69]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

The lake that I spend most my time on has roughly 20 miles of shore line...so about 8 miles long, with the distance between sides of no more that 1-2km. Not that big and not that wavy. Interestingly as I read my post and your response it actually occurred to me that maybe I think I made my decision about both. Smokercraft new may or may not last me as I am not a regular "boat buyer" and have simple requirements...so, I have removed this from my list. Boats always look great new. The Lund, probably too much boat for what I need, and I am always worried about something going wrong with a more expensive rig. I think I will keep looking with my list slightly changed based on anything and everything that I could read on this board.

The center console is very interesting, and I am curious as to why this was suggested?

As a side, the console is only because it is easier to transport things back and forth to the cottage

 

[southkogs]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

The reason I suggested the center console was that you sounded like you were going to fish more than anything, and that you were considering bigger water. The nature of the center console fishing boats (fiberglass or aluminum) lends them to both:

Center console - gives you a great balance in the boat when you're alone, or in rough water. Easy access to the entire boat (you can walk around it easily)
The boats typically are deep wells with good gunwales and you have kids (not too likely they'll fall over)
You're considering big water, and these hulls are usually V's designed to deal well with rougher water & they are self draining which makes them MUCH easier to clean bait and fish guts out of
Typically these boats are OB's, and I think it's much easier to learn boating on an OB motor

They are much more the utility boat, but if you can get over the austere interior they are very functional, versatile and capable rigs.

When you're talking about transporting things to the cottage, I would think on an 18' to 20' center console (what I've always called a bay boat) you can load a LOT of stuff on the deck to move it across the lake.

It sounds like you're leaning toward the Lund in your post - and I don't discount Lund at all. They're a great boat (and they have a bunch of different layouts). I just read your post and thought a center console. If you can find one a Boston Whaler Montauk 17 would be almost perfect.

 

[Marshall69]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

Great suggestions! on the center console. I will start looking. I wasn't really leaning towards the Lund, I think I just had "googly eyes" when I saw it - one of the reasons I never ever buy the first time I lay eyes on something . I actually found a princecraft that is in my price range, but now I am going to research a center console and see what I find. I really am simple by nature, so getting over the austere interior for functionality is right up my alley. Self draining - also a plus. Thanks for the explanation.

edit: I just checked the center consoles out. They look great. Just have to spend more time researching decent manufacturers, types that are "local" to me and size that money can buy. Again, great advice, who knows where I will end up.

 

[lncoop]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

As you probably know, aluminum boats and glass boats each have pros and cons. Just keep in mind there's a lot more to consider when looking at a used fiberglass boat than there is when looking at a used aluminum boat. Much greater potential for hidden issues and issues that aren't so hidden but might escape the untrained eye. Not trying to turn you off of the center console idea, just giving you some food for thought. Also, they're not as common, but there are aluminum center consoles out there.

 

[southkogs]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

And I wasn't trying to turn you off from the Lund, either. It's got a GREAT reputation for boats. I was more suggesting the center console layout. Like Incoop said, there are aluminum center consoles out there.

 

[lncoop]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

And I wasn't trying to turn you off from the Lund, either. It's got a GREAT reputation for boats. I was more suggesting the center console layout. Like Incoop said, there are aluminum center consoles out there.

Many more than there used to be. I attribute it largely to the explosion in popularity of trophy catfishing. I like your center console idea. Sounds like a good fit for him.

 

[greenbush future]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

The center console is a great one to consider based on your needs, but one thing that came to my mind, based on my experience is having a full windshield. You mentioned the interest in visiting larger lakes and to me staying dry is really important, and I bet your kids will agree. That said, having a walk-through full windshield was what took me from a center console, to a Lund Tyee. I purchased a used one, and it was scratched up but very solid mechanically. It served me well for 7 years before I sold it, and I regret letting it go. It would have lasted me forever, with the small amount of use I typically run. It is about as solid, safe, and stable boat I have ever owned. My new aluminum run about isn?t as solid or stable as the Lund, but my budget didn?t allow for another one. Resale is awesome on Lund?s too.

 

[sschefer]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

Lund's are not bad boats, Smokercraft are not great boats. I looked at them all and settled on a JetCraft. I've owned a few production boats like the Starcraft, Lunds and Smokercrafts and none of them compare to the JetCraft. I'm not being partial because I own one, I own one because I did my homework.

 

[Marshall69]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

It's funny, but with the trips that I have been making to look at boats, the information that I have been reading, and all the responses, the real conclusion for me is to select what I want in terms of options, boat type, engine, manufacturer, price and wait until I find it. I hate the idea of "buyers remorse" especially when it is something that the whole clan will enjoy. Although there are many opinions on boards such as these, I can't tell you how valuable, to me at least, the suggestions and experiences of others are. In all honesty who knows what types of things I may do with a boat once I get one. The initial thrust is to get one that can be enjoyed at the cottage by the family (but I have a good group of guys that like to trailer and fish other lakes).

I am not turned off of the Lund, but need to do more research on buying a used boat - what to look for, test drive, etc. Living in Canada I have also found very good reviews on the Princecraft lines and they seem reasonable. I actually found a couple of Montauks, but they are not cheap up here in the used market. The real decision maker, will be when the kids get in the boat with the wife and I see how comfortable they are in the boat.

 

[roscoe]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

I think you are way over thinking this.

Seems like you are worried about the wrong things to me.

1 - a layout that fits your needs.
2 - a sound hull
3 - a decent outboard
4 - a proper trailer

No boat is perfect.

All motors can AND WILL develop issues. New, or newer, means nothing, problems will arise.

99% of boaters can get by with less fancy, less expensive boats than they think.

Many newer boats don't seem to be made as well as they were, say 20 years ago. Fancier yes, better, no.

In todays market, a new boat will take a 25% depreciation hit in the first year.

Alumacraft, Lund, Princecraft, etc, are all over priced, both new and used.

I have owned many many boats, no boat will be perfect.

The only new boats
of this type that I would stay away from for quality reasons, is a Tracker or the Fisher.

Cosmetics really mean nothing, except to your ego.

Hundreds of Canadian resorts send thousands of guests out on much larger waters, in a 15' utility powered by a 10-20 hp motor.

Many many older boats out there in the $3-8000 range that will offer what you need.

Or if you are really concerned about an older motor, buy an older boat and put a new motor on it.


http://greenbay.craigslist.org/boa/2583983620.html

http://wausau.craigslist.org/boa/2585843556.html

http://wausau.craigslist.org/boa/2583811189.html

 

[Wecanoe]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

Lunds are great boats, and it seems to be a good price (although I don't remember seeing what the asking price is -- just your budget). It getting on towards fall -- at least it is up here. Make him an offer. . .

 

[Marshall69]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

Roscoe: I made my wife read this thread and she laughed her ***** off at "I think you are way over thinking this" - fair point
and great suggestions.
sschefer: looked at the Harbercraft (Jetboat) - I have never seen an offroad boat in my life! Made in Canada, great boat, just a tad bit out of my $ range. Although oddly enough the wife loved the boat.

Since it is pretty much fall here, I will keep looking and probably check out the boat show in Toronto in Jan/Feb see what's out there. I may follow Roscoes suggestion - buy used and see what happens and how much I use it.

 

[roscoe]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

Make sure you bookmark this thread, and get back to us when you buy one.

We like to see boats that people buy.

Cheers.

 

[southkogs]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

I attribute it largely to the explosion in popularity of trophy catfishing.

Captain Ahab didn't know what he was missing ... great white whale, pah!

 

[Lennyd123]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

I think you are way over thinking this.

Seems like you are worried about the wrong things to me.

1 - a layout that fits your needs.
2 - a sound hull
3 - a decent outboard
4 - a proper trailer

No boat is perfect.

All motors can AND WILL develop issues. New, or newer, means nothing, problems will arise.

99% of boaters can get by with less fancy, less expensive boats than they think.

Many newer boats don't seem to be made as well as they were, say 20 years ago. Fancier yes, better, no.

In todays market, a new boat will take a 25% depreciation hit in the first year.

Alumacraft, Lund, Princecraft, etc, are all over priced, both new and used.

I have owned many many boats, no boat will be perfect.

The only new boats
of this type that I would stay away from for quality reasons, is a Tracker or the Fisher.

Cosmetics really mean nothing, except to your ego.

Hundreds of Canadian resorts send thousands of guests out on much larger waters, in a 15' utility powered by a 10-20 hp motor.

Many many older boats out there in the $3-8000 range that will offer what you need.

Or if you are really concerned about an older motor, buy an older boat and put a new motor on it.


http://greenbay.craigslist.org/boa/2583983620.html

http://wausau.craigslist.org/boa/2585843556.html

http://wausau.craigslist.org/boa/2583811189.html

What he said

Seriously thanks for that post as you pretty much covered my thoughts on how we can over complicate things. I know it is a real problem because I am guilty of it as well.

I think part of the problem is that it is truly difficult to compare boats (partially the blame for this goes to the mfg for many reasons) and it is even more difficult to know or really learn what is actually important, and what is just selling points.

Kind of like how a Hyundai has more cup holders than a Ferrari.

I also learned that it is almost a waste of time to research which brands are actually made better etc as it seems that many times the ones that were not made the best in the first had all the bells and whistles, sold at higher prices new, and are also more desirable used even though not the best. Therefore if you do find any buyers remorse after purchasing a highly sought after brand name boat you will find it is a whole lot easier to sell later at a good price as most people are not willing to put in the time to learn a good boat from a bad boat and just buy based on looks, price and options.

It is sad, but worse the same with your home too. Just ask any realtor how a home built by a national builder that cuts every corner they can find will sell for about the same as a custom/semi custom one (resale). It does not make sense, but I guess it is just a result of the majority of people not having a clue to what they are doing (sorry in advance to anyone who knows they are clueless lol).

Then again when you look at all the junk we all buy today in general (mostly imported from third world nations) and even the parts that make up our boats and cars etc it is easy to see that price is king in manufacturing and we have become conditioned to the lower quality etc.

Back to boats I think anyone who is looking to make a purchase needs to do a few things before starting to look at exact models etc. First is to be honest with themselves in how they will use the boat (your obviously not needing shore power on a al open boat etc) what features they need to meet their expected use (size, hp, cabin, head, rod holders, ac, etc), what if any safety concerns there may be like high gunnels for small children, or boarding access for those with limited mobility, and weight, width and length for any trailer concerns.

There are many other things to add to this list, but once you figure out you need a 22ft for the typical conditions at your anticipated boating area, and have figured just how much boat your rig can pull safely, and then know if you need some kind of enclosure or cabin for the wife and kids or not, and finally figured out which style boat best suits your needs you will have half the battle won.

The next phases I think are a lot less stressful once you have established these things and even deciding over a larger or better used boat rather than a smaller or lessor new one will be a lot easier once you know your comparing the right boats.

No one can tell you if having a better built boat is more important than having enough money left over to properly equip it or even fuel it etc, but I can say this that no matter which way you decide to go expect to have to spend money you did not expect to on anything from repairs to changing out hardware that you just can not believe they used on a boat.

I know many and myself included have a hard time with choosing the correct style of model due to multi use etc. It is just difficult to find a fishing boat that cruises great, has full access all around, a large cabin, a large cockpit, rides like a displacement when things get rough, handles rough water at speed, and also accelerates and rides like an offshore racer.

Point is like said earlier there is no perfect boat

PS every day you think about which one to buy is another day your not out on your new boat

 

[sschefer]

Re: New basic Aluminum or 10 year old Lund

Something to remember if you buy used. Many of us started that way and worked our way up to new. I can't tell you how much money I've spent fixing up used boats but I can tell you that I've never got all my money back. I think your on the right track with taking your time to find a good boat. Keep at it, you will find the one you want eventually. Take your time and make the decision that's best for you.