New engine. No oil in gearcase.

[Grumman59]

Last winter I bought a new Yamaha 8hp 2-stroke from a local dealer. I put maybe 6-7 hours gentle use on it, then put it away in my garage.

So now, I get it out before installing it on the boat again and when checking the gearcase oil, all that came out the drain was about a teaspoon of black watery liquid. Not even oily and the insides of both plugs were also dry and not oily in the slightest.

It looks to me as if there has never been any oil in the gearcase. The PDI sheet shows the item as checked and the dealer says the motors always come from the factory with oil already in. He says the motor must have had a prop strike and all the oil ran out. Even if that was the case, there ought to be signs of oil around the prop shaft and some oil residue left in the bottom of the gearcase, below the seal but there isn't. It's all dry.

The only good thing is that practically all the use the motor had was at idle speed in the canals, otherwise, I can't imagine a gearbox lasting without any oil. I think the black stuff is what's worn off the seals mixed with water that got in when they started to leak.

The motor is still under warranty and I'll take it back to the dealer on Monday. What do others think has happened here and what ought the dealer to do?

 

[capt sam]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

chances are it was shipped without oil, given that you don't see any obvious water intrusion. Dealer should warranty, if not put oil in it and run it.

 

[99yam40]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

Pull the prop and see if you have any fishing line around the shaft that may have took out the seal.
If the seal is ok see if it will hold pressure.
I saw a 25 J/E lock up and when we drained it the only thing that came out was clear water because of a seal leak that was not checked for a long time. That is why it is best to change the oil before it is stored every year.

You may have a hard time convincing them you did not drain and forget to refill, but without any oil residue it maybe possible. You need to document everything you can and have witnesses if possible, they may try to cover their as

 

[Grumman59]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

No, the seal is visible and looks ok. No fishing line or anything, in fact it all still looks like new. The prop shaft is still covered with original grease which is not diluted by any leaking oil.

I don't think there was ever any oil in there and that they never checked it. But I have dealt with them for several years and thought they were generally very thorough.

I agree I should have checked the oil before I put it away but the engine is still almost new, not even due for its first service yet. There was no oil on the floor under where it was stored, either.

I should have checked it right after I bought it, I know but having paid for a PDI, I didn't.

 

[Grumman59]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

No, the seal is quite visible and looks ok. No fishing line or anything, in fact it all still looks like new. The prop shaft is still covered with original grease which is not diluted by any leaking oil.

I don't think there was ever any oil in there and that they never checked it. But I have dealt with them for several years and thought they were generally very thorough.

I agree I should have checked the oil before I put it away but the engine is still almost new, not even due for its first service yet. There was no oil on the floor under where it was stored, either.

I should have checked it right after I bought it, I know but having paid for a PDI, I didn't.

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

If the dealer washes hands as Pilatus add new oil in gear box untill completely full, use engine as usual for 1/2 hour, drain gear case to see if there are small metal fillings outing from inside gear case, if so, place oil bottle nose in upper screw and pump more oil turning prop with hand so to wash all remaining inside metal fillings. When oil exits inmaculate, fill complete gear case and adjust oil screws properly. It's normal to find small metal fillings/particles in the 10 hour break in period. Frighten the dealer, you are going to sue him for bad practice Nobody usually checks gear oil level, being a new engine, it's supposed to have come factory completely filled.

Happy Boating

 

[Grumman59]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

Nobody usually checks gear oil level, being a new engine, it's supposed to have come factory completely filled.
Happy Boating

Thanks Sea Rider, that's pretty much what I'll do if I have to look after it myself. I didn't see any filings yet in the watery gunk but I'm concerned the seals may have got burned.

So the motors are supposed to come full of oil, right?

BTW, nothing would surprise me. I was a mechanic for a main car dealer once and I've actually seen new cars come from the factory with main bearing shells missing from the engine.

 

[CatTwentyTwo]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

I don't think that the motors come from the factory with oil in them. I have had a new T9.9 and now a T8 and neither one came with oil in the motor or gearbox.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

in the 15 years or so I have sold and serviced new yamaha engines I have never seen a new motor sh?pped with no gear oil.
sometimes we have to add a few ounces but I have never seen a dry one.
take your motor back and see what they say, a call to the yamaha consumer line may also be warrented depending on what the dealer says.
at our shop the PDI is part of the engine prep and rigging.
on an 8hp 2 stroke takes about 10 minutes.
however its possible it was shipped dry, I have seen 3.0L mercruisers with missing headbolts and no threads in the block.
happens but its not normal.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

6 or 7 hours with no oil in the gearcase????

that thing should be junk.

i would not be conserned about the seals, i would be very conserned about the gears, that must have worn the s.... out of it.
funny that there is not a milkshake dripping out of it if water got in it.


did the dealer run the engine for you?
did they prop it out?
what rpm does it run WOT?

and yes rodbolt is right they all come with gearlube in them.
not engine oil.

i just cant believe it can run for 7 Hours with no oil in it and still not damaged? 7 hours is a long time.
with new engines we change the oil and gear lube after 20 hours. you are almost half way.
i think thats imposible.

its very strange thats for sure.

i would not use that gearcase anymore until its checked
out.

i would be worried if i would run a gearcase for only 10 minutes without oil.
Bearings and gears remember? metal on metal doesnt work

 

[Grumman59]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

6 or 7 hours with no oil in the gearcase????

that thing should be junk.

I agree, except that most of the running was at idle speed in the canals, hardly any WOT.

I'd imagine that the gearboxes are put together at the factory with some sort of assembly lubricant which possibly saved it but I'm surprised that no filings came out with the gunk. No play in the prop shaft either. I won't flush it yet until the dealer has seen it.

I just don't get it. If there was ever any oil in there, there ought to be at least some traces of emulsified oil left but there is none. I rub my fingers in the gunk and it's not the slightest oily.

Yamaha have factories all over. I think the 2-strokes are discontinued and this one was made in France so the conditions of shipment (with or without oil) may vary.

I should add that I have always been a big fan of Yamaha products.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

idle speed is about 700 rpm in gear and 1000 of gear.

compare that to your truck idling with no oil in it?
do you think it will last 7 hours?
it doesnt make any sense to me if that gearcase is still in spec.
if you would have said my gearcase had no oil in it and i run it for an hour and now its junk i would havo no problem with that.

i dont know what to say just that its very strange.
its almost like somebody was trying to sabotage you.

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

I don't think that the motors come from the factory with oil in them. I have had a new T9.9 and now a T8 and neither one came with oil in the motor or gearbox.

That is very strange, all engines should come with gear box factory oil filled, seems a quality control issue, a real danger to final user as distributor's are supossed to have checked it also defore delivery, sometimes oil screws comes so tight to unscrew to check If not, must be specified with a warning stiker on engine. Probably 4 strokes must need to add gear and engine oil, but 2 strokes must come gear box filled.

Happy Boating

 

[reeldutch]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

you could do a pressure and vacuum check.

if it holds pressure and vacuum, all bets are off.

its goanna be hard to make them believe you run it for 7 hours without any damage and no leaking seals.

freaky.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

simply take it back, hopefully the techs can find a leak or you can find a flaw in the PDI sheet and show they gundecked it and have fun.
most PDI sheets are gundecked.
look at the wot portion.
did they test wide open throttle on YOUR hull with that motor?
if not the PDI was gundecked.
does not matter two or 4 stroke or even if it left the factory with no gear oil.
thats why PDI is serialized for that motor and required by Yamaha.
means if the factory missed strike one the dealer keeps the consumer from finding strike 3.

as for 2 stroke manufacturing, yamaha is still gonna make them, just as suzuki does.
they just wont import any for sale to the US market as of jan 01 2010.

 

[Grumman59]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

I took the motor in and showed the dealer and the mechanic what I drained out (about a couple teaspoons of black water, not oily, not milky) and they said they'd take care of it under warranty.

The mechanic said he thought the bearings were damaged because it was harder to turn the shaft than it ought to be.

 

[Triton II]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

Good result Grumman. Suggest you double check everything when you get it back!

 

[Grumman59]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

Update.

Just collected my motor from the dealer. They installed a whole new bottom end, case, gears, everything under warranty. No charge, no fuss, excellent service, thanks Yamaha!

 

[Triton II]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

Great result! Errrr, don't forget to check the oil level!

 

[Grumman59]

Re: New engine. No oil in gearcase.

Yeah, right! I'll be checking it regularly now.