New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

[Texasmark]

Was surfing props today, starting with iboats (of course) Merc props.

My 24P XL Ballistic lets my stock 90HP, 2.3:1, 4 1/4" gearbox, 17' tin lizzie, run up around 5600 to 5800 rpm's in a straight away with 2ea. 200# folks, fuel, and gear....normal load. Holds pretty good in a tight turn whereas I cut her down out of WOT prior to hitting the turn, and half way through, I goose it and she just screams, not breaking loose, just like a race horse, loves the excitement, the engine and the soul mate sitting next to me...hanging on to what else but me (the soul mate)...... We're running 48-50 GPS...wake is in my Avatar. We boat on a 1000 acre lake during the week when you have to look hard to find another soul present, so we are not endangering any one....and we do fish between spurts of "Second Childhood Exuberance", the boat has BIA floatation/certification, rated for 130 hp, running 90, and we do wear our life preservers......did I miss anything. Grin!

This prop has a rubber built in hub. Was looking at possibly a Laser II, Quicksilver Lightspeed, or Solas Titan, and saw a lot of the plastic crap for hubs. Also saw at least one that boasted a rubber separate hub rather than plastic. None of them talked about power tip. thin blades, nor blade balance and casting uniformity.

Haven't had anyone "belly up to the bar" on what's obvious: Plastic doesn't yield when you shift and doesn't yield when you hit something.

Seems the industry, in it's infinite wisdom on cost cutting and all that "stuff" has come to realize, through disgruntled user feedback I'm sure, that the the plastic hub/brass molded insert just doesn't get it. I know there will be a dozen or so purists that swear by their plastic prop hubs but I have walked the walk and talked the talk and after 55 years of boating, I'm not buying the argument.

Soooooo, if I want to upgrade to one of the aforementioned props in 25-26 pitch, can they improve upon the Michigan Wheel (now) Ballistic, and if so, which one will get me back into a rubber hub, even if it is a replaceable throw away rubber hub?

Stiff question, looking for a stiff answer!!!! Come on big guns, hit me with your 00 buckshot. Grin.

Mark

 

[steelespike]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

Hi Mark,"I'm not an expert,grin,"So I'll have to ask.Are you saying that the pressed in rubber hubs are the only ones that offer any protection against impact?And some brands/models no longer offer the tried and true pressed in rubber hub? I've never bought a new prop in my life 62 years of boating so I'm really out of touch with what is out there.Had a lot of repairs though.Grin!
I've seen some info/questions on the solas interchangeable hub system.It tends to get stuck making a quick prop change nearly impossible.Are you refering only to interchangeable hubs.Personally I don't see an advantage for the average boater and It does appear that some of the hubs may actually make a change more difficult.
I don't think you could measure the difference between a rubber hub and a "plastic"as far as easing shift changes.
Have you had experience with the "plastic crap" Do they indeed offer no protection in real life?

 

[90stingray]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

I think the prop companies have gone to the removable hubs to make them fit a variety of models... thus the cost cutting you mentioned. I have used the plastic and rubber inserts and also pressed in rubber. I think the Solas rubber/brass hub inserts are pretty much permanent once pushed into the prop. The only advantage i see with the plastic is that it does allow you to removed them with a tap of a hammer handle. I have used different hubs on different props... so i think you could buy the prop you want and get a rubber hub like the solas. I like how solid their rubber hub fits into the prop. I have run a ss solas on my Stingray w/ rubber insert and bought another solas ss for my Glastron w/ rubber insert. Just my $.02

Here's a little info on the solas hubs... http://www.rubexprops.com/prop-info/2011/solas-interchangeable-hubs/

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

Plastic doesn't yield when you shift and doesn't yield when you hit something.

The plastic doesnt have any yield when shifting but it will yield in a impact as the brass spline insert will rip the plastic center to a smooth round hole but the prop will still be damaged just as a rubber hub prop will be. Also improper torque can cause the plastic hubs to fail or rattle. The ballistic is a good prop on fairly lite boats but your kind of limited to prop due to gearcase size. The Laser II is your best bet and if it will turn a 26 thats a stout engine!!!! The II will hold more water vs the ballistic or turbo props and will usually be faster on top end . If you can find the older Laser II it has more rake and is good for 2 mph over the newer ones but you would have to modify the vent holes as they are non adjustable like the new props.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

Hi Mark,"I'm not an expert,grin,"So I'll have to ask.Are you saying that the pressed in rubber hubs are the only ones that offer any protection against impact?And some brands/models no longer offer the tried and true pressed in rubber hub? I've never bought a new prop in my life 62 years of boating so I'm really out of touch with what is out there.Had a lot of repairs though.Grin!
I've seen some info/questions on the solas interchangeable hub system.It tends to get stuck making a quick prop change nearly impossible.Are you refering only to interchangeable hubs.Personally I don't see an advantage for the average boater and It does appear that some of the hubs may actually make a change more difficult.
I don't think you could measure the difference between a rubber hub and a "plastic"as far as easing shift changes.
Have you had experience with the "plastic crap" Do they indeed offer no protection in real life?

I bought a Turning Point Hustler alum prop a few years ago for my 90 hp and it had a separately ordered hub made from plastic and brass. The brass part is splined to fit the prop shaft and on the outer diameter of it are ribs (4-5) that run the full length of the "brass sleeve" and were about 3/8" or so radially extending from it (like rays of the sun). On the ribs, a plastic "filler" is molded and the outer dimension of that fit the inside of the hollow tunnel that makes up the ID of the prop hub (exhaust gasses go on the outside of it) and as I recall this interface is square. I read enough to understand that this allows whomever to stock a few props and a few hubs and fit most all requirements for different pitch props on different engines of different OEMs. That part makes sense to me.

With the plastic hub,there is no place for anything to go. If the the blades of the prop stop turning , the prop shaft will continue turning and brass will obviously follow till it yields, but only if the plastic is solid enough to not yield....yeah right...so the (my....will accept corrections if wrong) assumption here is that once you hit something solid, the plastic just strips out and you are left with a spinning shaft and a prop that is just flopping.

Yesterday, I saw a rubber plug that appeared to be circular like rubber hubs of the old days and gave you the best of both worlds, the rubber (flexing) cushion with the ability to spin inside the hub when needed and restore itself, and the convenience of a replaceable hub for economy of sales. I don't remember which prop was supporting that. I did notice that the Ballistic still uses the conventional rubber hub.

So, just trolling for what others are doing with/about it. Ballistic doesn't make a prop to fit my engine with more pitch.

And Steel buddy, don't be so humble....you're disgusting. Grin.

Mark

 

[Texasmark]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

The plastic doesnt have any yield when shifting but it will yield in a impact as the brass spline insert will rip the plastic center to a smooth round hole but the prop will still be damaged just as a rubber hub prop will be. Also improper torque can cause the plastic hubs to fail or rattle. The ballistic is a good prop on fairly lite boats but your kind of limited to prop due to gearcase size. The Laser II is your best bet and if it will turn a 26 thats a stout engine!!!! The II will hold more water vs the ballistic or turbo props and will usually be faster on top end . If you can find the older Laser II it has more rake and is good for 2 mph over the newer ones but you would have to modify the vent holes as they are non adjustable like the new props.

Thanks Faz.

Over the years I have had numerous encounters with rubber hubs and after striking the object, the engine revs, I cut the throttle/shift back to N and immediately go back to F and am on my way. Never took out a hub...spun hub.

I agree on limited selection of props due to 4 1/4 gearbox. My boat is light and has a 3 step hull so that hooked up I only run on the center step which is only about 12" wide. Have posted pics of it on here before. For me to be turning 5600-5800 with a 24P Ballistic XP at 48-50 Explorer GPS something has to be right. Prop slip calculations put me at about 12% slip and that's ok and seems reasonable. Just fooling around and thought about getting another prop. I do want the porting as with that much pitch I certainly want to retain my hole shot and do not want to lug the engine in doing so. Porting my Ballistic made a nice improvement in my current hole with only 1/4 dia holes. I have since found out that they do port their props for the larger (4 3/4? gearbox).

Thanks for the reply and the help you have given me in the past. Don't know if you got my thank you, but as you, Charlie B and sparky pointed out, my somewhat recent self induced problem was solved by proper carb adjustments and all my electronics are still intact with no changes required. That one really had me chasing a ghost and thank goodness ($$$) I was smart enough to finally listen to you guys and the rest is history.

Mark

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

assumption here is that once you hit something solid, the plastic just strips out and you are left with a spinning shaft and a prop that is just flopping.

Pretty much correct..... that why you carry a spare hub, 10mins and your ready to go again

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.



Well, Mark, it depends upon which hub you are talking about. My aluminum prop with plastic hub ( forgive me--I'm in mental gridlock. Prop is made by Michigan and name starts with "V") has an aluminum or brass--I forget which-- insert cast into the plastic hub. So, you really have to want to strip it in order to do so. A soft grounding or easy hit just aint gunna do it.

At any rate, I did not have the brass front insert with the four splines so I pressed in a regular Merc/Force 15 spline rubber hub. It went in quite well and tight, but as of yet, I have not tested the prop.

Back again--Vortex prop. Inside diameter of the hub is essentially the same as rubber hubbed props so the hub bought at HMS hubs fits well.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

View attachment 126687View attachment 126688

Well, Mark, it depends upon which hub you are talking about. My aluminum prop with plastic hub ( forgive me--I'm in mental gridlock. Prop is made by Michigan and name starts with "V") has an aluminum or brass--I forget which-- insert cast into the plastic hub. So, you really have to want to strip it in order to do so. A soft grounding or easy hit just aint gunna do it.

At any rate, I did not have the brass front insert with the four splines so I pressed in a regular Merc/Force 15 spline rubber hub. It went in quite well and tight, but as of yet, I have not tested the prop.

Back again--Vortex prop. Inside diameter of the hub is essentially the same as rubber hubbed props so the hub bought at HMS hubs fits well.

Frank, Hi.

The brass with 4 or 5 splines is what I'm talking about. Just yesterday I saw the rubber hub alternative in the separate hub/prop senario. I have had the pee-dunkeledy-darn scared out of me being on the windward side of rip-rap in a storm and having the prop fail me because it hit something and couldn't recover. I didn't have 10 minutes to pop the prop, pop the hub, put in a new one, get it all back together and get back underway. I respect Faztbullet, but that's not the right answer.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[cribber]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

I bought a Turning Point Hustler alum prop a few years ago for my 90 hp and it had a separately ordered hub made from plastic and brass.

Funnily... I bought the same type and make of prop from here at IBoats for my Volvo SX drive and had to buy the hub separately. I was puzzled when I got a Rubex/Solas 19 spline hub which is made of rubber since I had no clue I was getting something from two prop manufacturers. I upgraded to a 4 blade stainless and now this one is my spare I carry in the ski locker.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

Thanks guys, appreciate your comments and directions.

Mark

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

If you hit a hard object or anything else to make a rubber hub spin/shear,the blades are going to be mangled. The plastic hub takes a lot of force to shear and end result is the same, damaged. The hub is there for 1 reason ,to protect drive train and the hub and prop is what is sacrificial. I have replaced a lot of props with the plastic hub that where pretty mangled but the hub never sheared due to fact they where aluminum, the S/S prop due to it weight will dang near get it every time. I keep three 4-blade aluminum props and four 3 blade props in stock with a assortment of hubs(OMC/Yamaha/Suzuki/Honda/Volvo) to cover my customers in drystack(all 197 of them) plus several small hub props.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

A couple weeks back we had 3 ss props (that week) that had hub issues come thru the shop. 2 had rubber hubs, 1 of those 2 had blade damage - 1 had no blade damage. The other prop was a square bore that stripped the drive sleeve and had blade damage - and skeg damage. No lower unit gear damage on any of the motors.

The hub debate will go on for quite some time. The bottom line is the prop manufacturers will continue making square bore props since it cuts down on their inventory. The other advantage is for the larger hp motors. The newer motors have very hot exhaust, hot enough they can, and will, burn a rubber hub. They won't burn the drive sleeves.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

The newer motors have very hot exhaust, hot enough they can, and will, burn a rubber hub.

Yep...Forgot all about the E-tecs and early Fichts, and the problem with that "lighting" gear housing that had to small a water passage to cool hub.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: New Fangled Dangle Prop Hubs.

And some 3 liter Mercs, some 225 HPDIs and 250 & 300 HPDIs... if the exhaust is hot enough to burn tuners it'll darn sure burn rubber.