New guy, Old boat- SSDD

[LyleW]

See reply #21 and beyond of this thread, for why this thread was moved from the Volvo forum to the Dry Dock, and why the need for transom and stringer repair.


Howdy,
New to this forum and to boating in general.
First off I am cheap and always looking to save money. I am an SAE certified "Master Mechanic" with 25 years working on other peoples cars and trucks, taking it to a "Dealer/Shop" is not going to happen. I have the tools and the know-how to do most repair jobs, what I lack is specific knowledge of those items specific to boats.
I could use advise from those who know what I do not.
I would like a link to a service manual for a 1979 Volvo Penta AQ120B and 170 stern-drive.
I intend to put the I/O into a 1984 Seaswirl 16'.
The Volvo has a shot "Drive Plate" that I need to replace, I really do not want to pay $500 for what is not much more than a $50 clutch plate. Any suggestions???

 

[captmello]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

Welcome.

You can find used flexplate/vibration dampers on ebay for around $100.

aq120b service manual

http://www.4shared.com/file/56333492/918e6c02/AQ120B_AQ140A_7732670.html

270 outdrive manual

http://www.4shared.com/file/51930153/3a7e6375/270_Outdrive_service_manual.html

Both manuals are supplied by Don S, thanks Don!

 

[LyleW]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

thanks

 

[LyleW]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

thanks

Found one on ebay for just over $50.
Assuming everything works now, I plan to place this Volvo setup in a newer hull that had the flex rubber seal between the outdrive and the hull body. I could mount it solid like it is now or build somekind of rubber seal and mount the motor to the height adjusting (trim) motor used in the newer hull. (84 Seaswirl 16' open-bow)
Is the mounting method what determines the difference (if there is one) between an "inboard/outboard" and a "stern-drive"

 

[captmello]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

I/O and Sterndrive are the same thing.

It sounds like the "newer hull" has/had an OMC Stringer sterndrive, but I'm not quite sure from your description. Perhaps you could post some photos. If it is a stringer, your going to have to redo the transom as the hole is not the correct size for the Volvo drivetrain.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

Seaswirls ran OMC, so your 84 seaswirl will have the last of the stringer drives in them. the hole is big enough to throw a full-sized adult thru it. you will need to rebuild the transom and do some fiberglass work to allow for the smaller hole for the Volvo.

the old OMC mounted the front and back of the motor to the stringers (hence the name stringer drive). the transom was there to mount the big rubber boot to keep water out.

the newer OMC's, All mercruisers and volvos have the transom mount mounted to the transom and the front of the engine mounted to the stringers.

how are the stringers and floor in the seaswirl? if there is any sign of moisture or rot, the time to repair is when your rebuilding the transom. or find a new hull to put the drive into

 

[LyleW]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

The Seaswirl hull is in good shape. I think I need to look at some diagrams to learn all the lingo. Stringers are the main supports built into the hull that run front to back?
The Volvo is/was in a 79 Groom Bros SeaHawk and is direct mount to the transom. No front mount for the motor seems odd.
The Seaswirl has stringer mounting including an electric motor on the front mount to add more "tilt?" adjustment.
I had thought it would be possible to put the Volvo into the Seaswirl, and with enough reconstruction anything is possible, but I am also thinking just to repair the problems on the Sea Hawk and sell it for the cash to buy an I/O that would be a closer fit in the swirl.

 

[captmello]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

Sorry to say, there is no closer fit for the Stringer opening. You'd need another stringer outdrive, which is not a good idea as the stringers are antiquated and parts are getting harder to find. In fact your old Volvo drivetrain is a bit antiquated itself, but is a better design, imo. Since you're a mechanic, I'm sure your confident the Volvo is up to snuff...Have you tested the motor at all? Compression, etc?

It sounds like you really like the boat, so why not just redo the transom?

 

[LyleW]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

I do like the Swirl, it just seems better built and much nicer finishing touches. I admit to not knowing anything about how a v-hull (Swirl) handles as opposed to a tri-hull (Hawk) and only experience driving both would really let me know which is better for my intended uses (a little fishing, a little skiing, a lot of just cruising).
I had assumed that most I/O had the rubber boot with the motor mounted on the inside (stringers?) rather than how the Hawk is rigged with the outdrive unit being bolted directly to the transom wall. The transom mount seems like a crack waiting to happen!
I did check the compression before I ran the motor and some of the cylinders are low, 150, 110, 120, and 130. With my rose colored glasses I can see poorly seated valves from carbon buildup. I ran the motor for 10 minutes on my engine stand today and will recheck the compression tomorrow. The motor sounded good!

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

unfortunately OMC is the only one with the big hole and rubber boot. Volvo has a medium size hole and a transom plate, Mercruiser has the small hole and transom plate

I would squirt some oil down the three holes that are low. My guess would be rings or rust in the valve / valve seat area. most boat motors are pushed hard and carbon usually isnt an issue for low compression. Water ingestion from the exhaust and ring wear due to the lower temp that marine motors see.

As I stated, make sure you inspect the SeaSwirl stringers and floor for any signs of moisture and rot. drill a few 1/4" holes in the stringers. if the chips come out dry and looking like fresh wood, then just put some marinetex in the holes. however if the chips come out wet and dark. then you have wet or rotten stringers and that has to be replaced.

Just out of curiosity, did you buy the seaswirl without the I/O? if so, why was it removed?

 

[LyleW]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

Yeah, bought the Swirl sans running gear, nice hull, good trailer, both with clean paperwork for $200 (1 year ago). No idea why the motor was gone. I also had/have a 69 Chrysler that came with a GM 4 cyl and an OMC (2 years ago, no papers). I gave up trying to patch the huge hole and took that hull to the landfill. Saved the trailer to haul my kayaks! Do not think the motor is worth even tearing down as I can not get it to budge and the block is cracked. Any chance that OMC would bolt up to the Volvo?? (Bell housing pattern cross reference?) I put quite some time into patching that hole, learned a few things about fiberglass, kept busy.
The Hawk I bought just two weeks ago, (promised papers, yeah right!) thinking to use the running gear in the Swirl. It is all a learning process that gives me something to do.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

no, the Volvo engine will not bolt up to the OMC drive or visa-versa. I believe the volvo block is a volvo B21 and the OMC block is a GM 3.0. thats a carb to prop swap once you patch the large hole in the transom.

 

[LyleW]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

Looks like I get to learn about the outdrive. When I went to remove all the old damper plate and make sure the new plate fit, I discovered the input shaft has no bearing anymore! Looks like the outdrive has to come off to replace those brgs. Probably explains why the damper went to pieces!

 

[LyleW]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

Help!
Any tips for removing the Pivot Pins? I tried to turn them out with a hand impact, tried to push from the inside while tapping on the outside.

 

[captmello]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

You just need to turn the outdrive so the pins can be driven inward without hitting the steering helmet.
They are not threaded.

What Bearings are you talking about??? How bout some pics.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

use a brass drift when driving in the pins. they are fairly soft.

 

[LyleW]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

You just need to turn the outdrive so the pins can be driven inward without hitting the steering helmet.
They are not threaded.

this makes sense

 

[LyleW]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

What Bearings are you talking about??? How bout some pics.

Pins came right out after you turned me in the right direction.
First pic is what I could see from looking at the bell housing.

next is from the outside looking in, looks like I need the housing, way past needing bearings.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

ouch. looks like you will need a new flywheel housing assembly. looks like the u-joints ate the section sticking thru the transom plate, and there are no bearings left. I would start looking on ebay.

 

[LyleW]

Re: New guy, Old boat- SSDD

Ok, I have a used bell housing and a u-joint and bellows on the way. Decided to just go ahead and remove all the goodies from the Seahawk and start the process of fitting it into the Seaswirl. Having a tough time getting the shift cable housing guide to come loose from the transom plate.
Recommendations for a good glue/sealer to use on my mounting adapter? Plan to use thick plywood to fill the gap from the transom mount to the transom with an aluminum diamond plate to bridge the two. Hope to also add frt motor mounts to minimize flex at the transom.
Will add some pics as I start to Frankenstein the Swirl.