New seals in trim unit but now it's worse

[Reggie08]

I replaced the seals on my tilt/trim unit (tilt cylinder would bleed down) but now it's worse. I initially thought I put the wrong seals on the tilt cylinder. I found out later it's a Showa cylinder and not a Prestolite. Replaced the those seals with the correct ones but it still doesn't work. The trim cylinders seem to work fine but once the tilt cylinder kicks in, it sounds like fluid is getting pushed past something or maybe not being pushed past something. I didn't pull all the valves out (ones on the outside of the unit I left alone and just replaced the O-rings on the caps) but in the resevoir I pulled both, replaced the o-rings then re-installed. On the motor side I pulled one, replaced the o-ring then re-installed. I'm wondering if, on the resevoir side, I re-installed the valves incorrectly. I didn't see anything in the manual that said to re-install it a certain way other than the order in which the pieces went back together in. I suspect I have a valve issue somewhere but I'm at a loss for which one it could be.

I filled and bled the system like the manual said too. I cycled the cylinders several times, checked the fluid level, topped off as necessary. I did this several times actually until I could no longer add fluid without it draining out of the fill hole. On the bench it works great but like I said, once I put it on the motor, the tilt cylinder does nothing. In fact, if it does raise any, it immediately bleeds back down so I'm guessing it's not getting enough fluid or what fluid is being pushed into the cylinder is being bled right back out.

Any ideas or suggestions?

 

[littletunny]

Re: New seals in trim unit but now it's worse

What motor do you have?

 

[Reggie08]

Re: New seals in trim unit but now it's worse

Sorry about that...It's an 85 'Rude 90hp.

Worked on it some more tonight and somehow, someway, I made it worse. Now only one trim cylinder will retract. Once it's fully retracted, the motor just turns. The 2nd trim cylinder won't budge. When I put the trim unit back on the motor, both trim cylinders retracted and pushed out just fine (they do have a slow leak down though), but as soon as the tilt cylinder starts to kick in, I'm back to the original problem. Apparently when I was dumping some of the excess fluid out of the resevoir (resevoir cap was off) I dropped a very small ball/ball valve and I had no idea where it went. I looked on the parts diagram and it doesn't even show it. It wasn't either of the ball valve seats for the valves in the resevoir. I seen it while I was working on it. As you're looking into the resevoir/manifold area, it's at about 1 o'clock position. It looked like it was 3/32" in size. Very small.

I've bled the system several times and checked the fluid level when the tilt cylinder is in the full up position but I'm at a loss. The manual doesn't specify how the valves are to be re-seated when you put them back in. I only pulled 3 valves (pump relief valve under the trim motor, the relief valve under the manifold and the impact sensor valve) out since I didn't want to really screw things up (famous last words). All the other valves on the front of the unit I left alone. All I did to those was unscrew the plug, replace the o-ring on the plug then put the plug back in. Like I said, I didn't want to take the chance of screwing something up.

 

[Reggie08]

Re: New seals in trim unit but now it's worse

Update...

Got this figured out last night. I pulled the trim up relief valve located under the trim motor and noticed the o-ring was torn in 3 pieces. I had initially replaced it but apparently while pressing it back in, it tore. Found the old one, checked it, cleaned it and put it back on then re-seated the valve. Then I commenced to finding that ball valve I lost the other night. Found it and was surprised to find it wasn't the one I thought I had lost. Looking at the parts diagram I noticed it was supposed to under the filter valve seat I honestly don't remember pulling the filter valve seat but apparently I did and when I put it back together, I put the valve seat in, then the ball valve then the filter. It should've been (in order) ball valve, filter valve seat then the filter. Put everything back together, filled the resevoir and bled the system a few times. Noticed two things: first was I could only add fluid in the ful up tilt position (before this it didn't matter). This told my pea sized brain fluid was moving thru the system like it should. Secondly, the trim cylinders cycled differently than before. Prior to this, one trim cylinder would fully retract then the second. Now, one would partially retract, then the other would start to retract then the first would retract again then the second would fully retract then finally the first would fully retract. Decided to put the unit back on the motor with fingers crossed. Connected the tilt cylinder to the motor, unlatched the trailer/lock latch and WA-LAA! It held. Cycled it several times and everything worked as it should. Noticed no bleed down. Cycled it a few more times stopped it at a certain point and took a measurement between two points. Let it set for a few minutes then re-measured. No change in the measurement.

So I think I have these bugs worked out. Next stop is putting the motor on the boat today and setting up the controls. Tomorrow I'll set the WOT timing then take it to the lake to set the idle and begin the break-in period. Keeping my fingers crossed the motor goes "VROOM!" and not "BANG!"

 

[littletunny]

Re: New seals in trim unit but now it's worse

Great news!

I would share my story of rebuilding my 48 spl trim but there aren't enough pages!

I too lost one 3/16" SS ball bearing, except mine was part of the piston assembly and I was working on the garage floor so when it hit the ground it took off.

I searched for days for that ball bearing but never found it.

I ended up going to a harly dealership and they the ball bearings.

Fast forward 3 months, while I was sweeping my garage gues what I found? yep the ball bearing. It was in the corner of the garage past a bunch of junk.

I still physically understand how it ended up where it did but that is typical

 

[Reggie08]

Re: New seals in trim unit but now it's worse

I was pretty happy to find that ball valve to say the least. It's been a long two months rebuilding this motor in my spare time but it's been fun. Learned a lot in the process. Now I just hope the effort pays off

 

[Benny1963]

Re: New seals in trim unit but now it's worse

go ahead reggie glad to see you are having some luck
post after you run your boat let us know how it goes .
will be running mine soon finished powerhead but havent installed .
did you ste your timeing pointer if you did what did you use
let me know how it gos with your timeing ,
that my area of concern when i fire mine up is link and sink and wot timeing
good luck it raining like hell here

 

[Reggie08]

Re: New seals in trim unit but now it's worse

The timing pointer wasn't moved and I'm not sure where it's set at now, but I can snap a picture of it for you if like.

It took me a little while to get the carbs linked correctly but I think I got em so they open and close simultaneously and at the same distances. I hope to borrow a timing light tomorrow and set the WOT timing per J. Reeves post in the FAQ's. Seems fairly simple.

We had lots of rain here (Oklahoma) yesterday evening and then again this morning but sun is shining now