New starter - should I use it?

[arrkerr]

For starters, I've got a 90/91 Merc/GM 3.0.

A month ago I bought a cheap starter from ebay. The nose of the starter broke after about 5 starts. The consensus was that it was literally cheap, but there were marks on it indicating that the flywheel was rubbing on the starter, and possibly struck the cone.

Per recommendation of other guys on this forum, I purchased a new starter from DB Electrical. It just arrived, and it is EXACTLY the same as the old (now broken) starter that I had before - same brand and everything!

Looking at the starter, these new starters have an extra lip around the cone of the starter. That is where my flywheel looked to be rubbing. My old starter also has some indentations around the face of the starter where the flywheel would pass by.

My old starter had no shims. What I'm wondering is if I should shim this new one, if I should use a different brand of starter, and if I'm safe to install it. I've got a pretty normal setup, so I've got to believe that these starters must fit, or they wouldn't sell them.

Thanks guys - I sure don't want to break my flywheel!! Breaking the cone off that last one sure left me a bit... cautious.

Images are attached.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

Howdy,

Well, It appears that the rubbing didn't cause it to break.... It was probably cracked to begin with....

I would use a die grinder on the new one to make my own indentation and use it. you have a good pattern of what you need to take off....

Your other choice could have been to just drop the original starter off at an auto electric shop and have it rebuilt. That way you'd be using the "original" starter.


I would also disassemble the old one and the broken one and make a good one out of the other "new" one using the housing from your original....Then you'll have a spare!

Cheers,


Rick

 

[arrkerr]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

hehe, ya, I've already scavaged solenoids. The original stater actually works fine, it just seems to be eating solenoids (two this year). I could just have crappy solenoids, but I figured for $75 I'd just try a new starter. I bought the db electrical because of the warranty (1-year, woudl should get me through most next season). I doubt they'll honor it if I hit it with a grinder. But great idea... I might just do it. Just doesn't seem like I should have to, since the starter is made for my set-up.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

No, you shouldn't have to.

You might give them a call on that and ask them if they have a "fix" for that problem......then you can ask them if you have to file the case to get it to fit.

 

[arrkerr]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

I called, they said it'll work. So... uh... guess I'll give it a shot.

 

[myoldboat2]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

I called, they said it'll work. So... uh... guess I'll give it a shot.

I have the same starter on my Merc 140 and it fits perfectly. Is it possible that your flywheel ring gear is set a little fore on the flywheel? The other guys can chime in here to say if that's possible, but my understanding is the the ring gear is an intereference mount, put in place by heating up the ring gear, placing it over the flywheel and letting it cool. Maybe if that's done with the flywheel lying the wrong way the ring gear extends too far fore.

In any case, if it's easy enough to mount, I'd mount it and try it. If it rubs, I'd call DB Electrical. They've been fair in my dealings with them.

I don't see how a shim would help--it would move the starter down, not forward. That would just lessen the gear engagement, not a good thing. If it rubs, I think you may have to grind the case. Maybe DB will agree to that and still honor the warranty for the internals. It's only a 60 dollar starter, probably costs them next to nothing.

Good luck with it.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

Make sure you are using bolts made for a starter. Are you also using the bracket that supports the front of the starter? Are you using a torque wrench to torque down the starter bolts?

 

[Don S]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

That is why I use OEM starters ONLY on the 3.0L engines. They fit better, don't rub, and fit the front support (that the aftermarket don't)
Plus, the OEM is about the same price as the aftermarket ones.

 

[arrkerr]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

Wow, ok, thanks guys. I think I'll be sticking with OEM as Don S. suggests, and keep this one around as a spare to use in a pinch.

 

[soaringhiggy]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

What pinch, when you feel like going to the water to break a starter? Return it, get the old one redone and put an new one in. There could be several reason the old one is hard on solenoids, but reworking the starter should fix that.

 

[myoldboat2]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

Am I right that the "Old starter that worked" in the photo is NOT an OEM starter? Don, do you mean by OEM the bigger starters? I did have better luck with my old bigger starter, but the heavy beast was almost impossible to remount in my very tight bilge.

 

[arrkerr]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

Good point. I have NO idea if that black one is an OEM starter. I do know that it came on the boat when I got it, and it looks a lot more like what you'd expect from a marine starter than the others. Its got that black coating, looks a lot more water-resistant, and says "Marine" on it.

I get the feeling the others are actually car starters, and I wonder if the 3.0 marine motor might have a different flywheel from the automotive motor it was based on (and that these starters are actually designed for?), which would explain the different cut-out.

Apparently there were three options for these boats, a "big" starter, and two small. Mine has the small gear-reduction starter with the straight-across bolts. Those bigger starters won't fit in the newer 3.0 block, as far as I know. You can't interchange them. I think you can get a small gear-reduction starter to replace the big starter, but not the other way around.

 

[Don S]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

I kind of lost track of this thread over the weekend. Merc doesn't even sell the large starters anymore, only the small gear reduction starters for the 3.0L engines. Merc PN 806965A4.
They fit, they are designed for the applications and designed to use the front bracket.

 

[charlie kelle]

Re: New starter - should I use it?

hi i can see the difference in the starter couple of things make sure your flywheel is true gm flywheels in cars have had problems for years you can chech by disconnect power to ignition coil take something to rub against flywheel and turn motor over with a socket and rachet on front crank bolt as it turns the flywheel should make contact all the way around if that is ok you will have to shim starter . when you look at starter the gear on it is desinged to move toward flywheel so that gear should be away from flywheel when not engaged so that piece on housing should touch nothing because the gear sticks out further than the housing does when not engaged when you turn flywheel over check the flywheel for something that might hit starter nose cone damage can and will occur if not shimmed properly i hope this helps

For starters, I've got a 90/91 Merc/GM 3.0.

A month ago I bought a cheap starter from ebay. The nose of the starter broke after about 5 starts. The consensus was that it was literally cheap, but there were marks on it indicating that the flywheel was rubbing on the starter, and possibly struck the cone.

Per recommendation of other guys on this forum, I purchased a new starter from DB Electrical. It just arrived, and it is EXACTLY the same as the old (now broken) starter that I had before - same brand and everything!

Looking at the starter, these new starters have an extra lip around the cone of the starter. That is where my flywheel looked to be rubbing. My old starter also has some indentations around the face of the starter where the flywheel would pass by.

My old starter had no shims. What I'm wondering is if I should shim this new one, if I should use a different brand of starter, and if I'm safe to install it. I've got a pretty normal setup, so I've got to believe that these starters must fit, or they wouldn't sell them.

Thanks guys - I sure don't want to break my flywheel!! Breaking the cone off that last one sure left me a bit... cautious.

Images are attached.