New to the Pontoon World with questions

old_dog

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Jan 14, 2010
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I have been looking at used pontoon boats and trying to get an idea of what things I need to look for in a used boat. I would like to find a 20-22ft Cruiser or Party set up with enough power to get above 20mph. Would prefer 2000 or newer. What should I look for in this boat in order to be comfortable stable and have enough power.

4 Stroke or 2 Stroke?
They make outboards just for Pontoon Boats like the mercury big foot for example how do I know I am getting a motor that is Pontoon adequate?
HP, I need to get above 20mph?
Mercury Suzuki Honda??
Size of Pontoons?
Weight of Seat Fabric?
Accessories I Gotta Have??
Water tight Play Pen Cover is their such a thing

I have come to know when you need information just ask the people who know, always the best way to learn?.Thanks
 

EGlideRider

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

I have been looking at used pontoon boats and trying to get an idea of what things I need to look for in a used boat. I would like to find a 20-22ft Cruiser or Party set up with enough power to get above 20mph. Would prefer 2000 or newer. What should I look for in this boat in order to be comfortable stable and have enough power.

4 Stroke or 2 Stroke?
Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I think I'm in the majority when I recommend the 4 stroke.

They make outboards just for Pontoon Boats like the mercury big foot for example how do I know I am getting a motor that is Pontoon adequate?
You want a long shaft. It's best to call the manufacturer or consult with a competent marine tech before committing to a particular motor.

HP, I need to get above 20mph?
Minimum of 90. 115 better.

Mercury Suzuki Honda??
I don't like the Suzuki nor Honda motors. I'm sure others have had good luck with them. I prefer the Yamaha but Mercury also makes a good motor.
Size of Pontoons?
25" minimum. The bigger, the better.
Weight of Seat Fabric?
Most seat fabrics will last if you keep them maintained and covered when not in use. So the heavier, the better.
Accessories I Gotta Have??
Depends on your cruising waters and your uses. Some that come to mind in no particular order are: Depth finder, compass, boarding ladder, changing room with porta-potti, marine radio, anchor, first aid kit, high powered spot light, flashlight, GPS, and extra line.

Water tight Play Pen Cover is their such a thing? Not completely watertight, but maybe 97%. This has always been a must for me.

I have come to know when you need information just ask the people who know, always the best way to learn?.Thanks

Good luck!
 

lncoop

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Apr 18, 2010
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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

I have a 21 footer with a 90. It's a great size for us. Large enough to spread out on with friends, the 90 will push it 23mph @ WOT, and it's easy to tow. There are myriad things to consider, but I'll try to be helpful and coherent.

2 Stroke vs 4 Stroke
Like politics and religion, this is one of those contentious issues that shouldn't come up at dinner parties. Each has its pros and cons. 2 strokes are generally cheaper and require less maintenance, but they're louder than 4 strokes (although well maintained ones not distractingly so), don't run nearly as clean, and generally gulp fuel. That said, 2 strokes are still doing a great job of pushing boats all over the world, so regardless of what some will tell you, the 2 stroke outboard is not an endangered species. If it is I'm in trouble because I'm the very satisfied owner of two. I guess what I'm saying is both 2 and 4 strokes are viable options so don't dismiss either off hand.
Speed
There are other considerations beside horses that affect the speed of a barge, one of the main ones being the condition of the toons. Toons that are coated with crud will slow a barge way down, so take that into consideration when you water test (you will water test before buying, right?). As I said, my 21 footer has a 90 and it's a perfect match. I only mention that to give you a little bit of a paradigm. No two boat and motor matches will yield the same results, even if they're identical brands. There are just too many mitigating factors. You might consider bringing a GPS on the test run, even if the boat has a speedo.
Motor Brand
I have Mercs. They're great. I've had Johnnyrudes. They were great. I know guys who swear by or swear off of both and the other brands you named. The main thing is to check the compression before you water test. You'll find numerous threads on here about that. Also, make sure you can feasibly have whatever you buy serviced. A couple of phone calls will answer that question. One thing I'll mention regarding Mercs, they have much better oil inection systems than the Johnnyrudes. I won't get into specifics because there are numerous threads about that as well.
Toon Size
Most anything in your age range will have 23" or bigger, which is good. Some will be filled with foam, some won't. Foam has advantages and disadvantages, but I won't go down that road. Some toons are more prone to developing leaks than others, but that's not the catastrophe it sounds like. There are welders everywhere who can take care of that for a very reasonable fee.
Accessories Some kind of top is a must. I like Biminis because they're easily deployed and replaced, and in your size range that's what you'll see almost exclusively. Other than that for us it's all about the furniture and storage. We have couches everywhere and a sundeck and we love the setup. We also have the ability to place a table fore and aft, which is nice but not critical. You will want some kind of table though. Beyond that you can add just about anything you can imagine; grill, fishing seats, camping enclosures, the sky's the limit.
Cover
There are playpen covers and covers for the entire boat. Mine came with a factory made Sunbrella cover. If you buy a boat that doesn't come with a cover you can have one made. They ain't cheap, but they're a heck of a lot cheaper than the carpet and upholstery, so I believe them to be worth every penny. They also last for a VERY long time. You can call around and get estimates from local upholsterers. If you don't want to spend that much you can buy semi-custom covers that work pretty well, but they don't last very long. In the long run having one made will actually be cheaper.

The nice thing about buying used pontoon boats is you can see pretty much everything. No transom or stringers hidden from sight quietly rotting away unsuspectedly. Just look for straight toons (a few dents are fine), good compression in the motor, and a good strong deck. Be sure and water test extensively before you buy. One other thing; you didn't mention where you're from or whether you wanted a boat on a trailer or in a slip, two questions that will have a significant impact on your boat search. I'm sure it will come up eventually. Good luck and welcome to iboats!
 

EGlideRider

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

2 strokes are generally cheaper and require less maintenance, but they're louder than 4 strokes (although well maintained ones not distractingly so), don't run nearly as clean, and generally gulp fuel.

I bought my first 4 stroke last year after running relative problem-free 2 strokes for nearly 40 years. I am actually disappointed how loud the four stroke is at higher rpm's. I now have a 2009 115 Merc four stroke and my last was a 2000 115 Merc two stroke. At idle and up to maybe 2000 RPM's, the 4 stroke is significantly quieter. But above that, the noise level is about the same and I think the 4-stroke is actually louder. The noise seems to be much more mechanical than exhaust. Of course, the 4-stroke has 20 times more moving parts than does a 2-stroke (a disadvantage) so I guess that is expected. LOL.
 

Silvertip

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Sep 22, 2003
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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

If speed is what you are after you need either or both of these two items: 1) Lifting strakes and/or a triple-toon (three tubes).

As for power, you are being given somewhat misleading info. Although four strokes from off idle to about 3/4 throttle tend to be more fuel stingy, once you get wide open that margin shrinks dramatically. It takes "X" amount of fuel to make one horsepower so at full power, a 60 HP motor (two stroke or four) will burn very close to the same amount of fuel. As for noise, again at slower speeds the four strokes are generally a tad quieter. At WOT that margin again gets very close. Four strokes tend to make a "different" sound than a two stroke so what appears to be quiet really is just "different". Yamaha used to publish those dB numbers but you will notice that is not necessarily always done. Hmmmm -- I wonder why? As for motor quality, they are all good these days. As for BigFoot or not, don't let that terminology fool you. A Merc BigFoot in 40/50/60 size is nothing more than a 40/50/60 power head sitting on a 75/90 HP gearcase with 2.33:1 gears whereas the standard lower unit for those engines carries 1.83:1 gears. If you want to be above 20 MPH your are also above 60 HP so gear case selection is then a moot point. Prop selection then becomes the major issue. You do want a pontoon-specific prop and they are easy to spot. Large rounded ears rather than the scimitar shaped blades on a standard prop. Large blade area is needed for the toon and it also providesw much better pull in reverse than a standard prop. I happen to prefer a 4-stroke for a pontoon but the DFI E-tec is or Merc-Opti is also a good choice. No more carbed two strokes and definitely not a carbed four-stroke. Why bother with carbs when EFI is so much better.
 

EGlideRider

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

It takes "X" amount of fuel to make one horsepower so at full power, a 60 HP motor (two stroke or four) will burn very close to the same amount of fuel.

I must respectfully disagree with this statement. A two stroke is not as efficient as a four stroke in converting fuel BTU's to horsepower. While technology has brought the efficiencies close together, a study of the two-stroke technology will illustrate why the two-stroke can never be as efficient as the four-stroke at any RPM. The two stoke will always send a small amount of raw fuel out the exhaust whereas the four-stroke will not.

And I'm certainly not knocking the two-strokes. They still offer many advantages over the four-stroke.
 

lncoop

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

No more carbed two strokes and definitely not a carbed four-stroke. Why bother with carbs when EFI is so much better.

No question EFI is superior. However, at least around here, it's pretty tough to find in the secondary market. If you reject all carbureted engines sight unseen your search will likely be a very long one. Keep us posted with your progress.
 

EGlideRider

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

No question EFI is superior. However, at least around here, it's pretty tough to find in the secondary market. If you reject all carbureted engines sight unseen your search will likely be a very long one. Keep us posted with your progress.

I agree with this statement. If you do buy a carbureted engine more than 6 or seven years old, have the carbs rebuilt even if the engine is running good and you're good for another 10 years. It is fairly easy to do yourself and not very expensive.
 

Silvertip

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

Well, I will post my data if you post yours. Here are four charts from Yamaha's web site (performance bulletins). I picked a 50 HP 2 stroke, a 50 HP 4 stroke, a 90 HP 2 stroke and a 90 HP 4 stroke for comparison. I made sure all four engines were tested (by Yamaha) on a Bennington pontoon since that's what this discussion is about.

First - perhaps where you are it is difficult to find EFI/DFI used. Obviously you won't find any if you don't look for them so broaden the search. Good things are not always found at your front door.

So here goes - there will be four charts. My comments follow the last one.
Yamaha 50 HP 4 Stroke

Yam504stk.jpg


Yamaha 50 2 Stroke

Yam502stk.jpg


Yamaha 90 2 Stroke

Yam902stk.jpg


Yamaha 90 4 Stroke

Yam904stk.jpg


50 HP Observation #1: At ANY given engine RPM the 2 stroke is pushing the boat faster.
50 HP Observation #2: At WOT the 2 stroke is ALWAYS faster.
50 HP Observation #3: At typical cruise rpm of 4000 RPM there is less than .7 MPG difference in MPG but the 2 stroke is pushing the boat nearly 3 MPH faster.
50 HP Observation #4: The 10% of HP rule of thumb for fuel consumption on ANY engine is alive and well. 10% of 50 HP = 5 gph. 5.5 for the 2-stroke and 4.5 for the 4-stroke.
50 HP Observation #5: WOT noise for 2 stroke is 85 dB -- notice nothing published for the 4-stroke. I've seen 88 for the 2 and 85 for the 4 in other reports.
General observation: 4 strokes need to rev higher to get equivalent performance of a 2 stroke.

90 HP Observation #1: At all RPM except 5500 (4 stroke) the 2 stroke is pushing the boat faster. In this example for 4 stroke is .4 MPH faster but the engine is running 200 rpm faster.
90 HP Observation #2: At WOT the 10% rule still applies although the 4-stroke does do a bit better but the difference is less than 10% (9.1 for the 2 stroke, 8.0 for the 4 stroke).
90 HP Observation #3: At 3000 and 4000 cruise RPM the 2 stroke again is faster.

(We have a tornado warning -- I'm outa here!)
 

lncoop

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

Like politics and religion, this is one of those contentious issues that shouldn't come up at dinner parties.

Told ya. Didn't take long, huh?;)
 

Silvertip

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

And I'm not biased as I have both two and four strokes. I like a two stroke on my go fast boats and a four stroke on my pontoon (mainly because I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere with it.). Just trying to get folks to look at "all" the numbers -- not just the ones they "think" are important. If anyone is interested, I did a real world study with a 75 Merc two stroke, 75 E-tec, 70 Yamaha 2 stroke and a 75 Yamaha 4-stroke some time ago. You can search for that. The 75 Merc was my own boat which just happens to have a fuel flow monitor so it was a good candidate for testing on an Alumacraft Navigator 165. Yamaha and Evinrude test results on the same or very similar boats were used in the comparison. The difference? Nada, zip, or in other words, not enough to argue about. The lesson in all of this is to buy what you want and believe half of what everyone else tells you including me. All I did was provide some published data.
 

lncoop

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

And I'm not biased as I have both two and four strokes. I like a two stroke on my go fast boats and a four stroke on my pontoon (mainly because I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere with it.). Just trying to get folks to look at "all" the numbers -- not just the ones they "think" are important. If anyone is interested, I did a real world study with a 75 Merc two stroke, 75 E-tec, 70 Yamaha 2 stroke and a 75 Yamaha 4-stroke some time ago. You can search for that. The 75 Merc was my own boat which just happens to have a fuel flow monitor so it was a good candidate for testing on an Alumacraft Navigator 165. Yamaha and Evinrude test results on the same or very similar boats were used in the comparison. The difference? Nada, zip, or in other words, not enough to argue about. The lesson in all of this is to buy what you want and believe half of what everyone else tells you including me. All I did was provide some published data.

Well said.
 

old_dog

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Jan 14, 2010
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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

Thanks Guys a lot of valuable information I will put it to good use, being a former ASE certified Auto Tech I can understand why everyone has thoughts about the 4 stroke and 2 stroke engines but I am not up to date with Outboards and all your thoughts and facts are well taken. I do own an old FourWinns 170 Horizon with a Mercrusier the boat is 21 yrs old and I have taken care of it well, I love Boats. Last summer we purchased a summer home on Lake Wapogasset in Amery Wi thus the need for the Pontoon, when I do get it I will park it on a lift rite next to my dock, looking forward to getting it bought. Thanks Again
 

EGlideRider

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

I'll put the top back on the can of worms.
 

lncoop

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

So it sounds like you won't be needing a trailer. That will simplify your search considerably. I'm glad you intend to keep it on a lift. Your toons and deck will thank you. In your case I would highly recommend a top quality cover.
 

PGFISHER

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Re: New to the Pontoon World with questions

HP to HP 2 strokes should weigh less than 4 strokes (fewer parts) but looking at brand to brand, this becomes a bit cloudy. M oving a passenger a few feet fore or aft makes a bigger difference.:D
 
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