Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

[AaronR]

Well I'm not a newb to boating but I know near nothing about sailing.

I have thought seriously about buying a sailboat for a few years but now I actually have a boat slip of my own so I could have a place to store it.

I will be using it in The Lake of The Ozarks in Missouri which sometimes has chop 3 or so feet and can have boat wakes higher than that. I would want it to be large enough and stable enough that I could use it even when the water is getting rough. I would like it to still be trailer-able so I could move it if needed. I would like to have a cabin large enough for one or two people to spend a night in it. I would also like it to have a small gas powered engine.

I'm looking for recommendations on older boats between $3k-$4k, I don't want to spend a lot until I'm confident I will be able to sail something and have fun with it.

Mostly,

What fits my criteria?

What should I look for before purchasing a boat?

Will I be able to learn to sail on my own very easily?

 

[tommays]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

At about 25' has a good size cabin and is still Ok to trailer depending on how much comfort you require

In that size at 3k to 4k there can be lot of things that just worn out and the as a smart man said the price of the boat has nothing to do with the price of the repiar

I would look to local sailors for some help learning the basics and there are plenty of books BUT a sailboat can bite you until you learn were the teeth are

 

[saildan]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

• I don't want to spend a lot until I'm confident I will be able to sail something and have fun with it.
  
• What should I look for before purchasing a boat?
  
• Will I be able to learn to sail on my own very easily?

I'm with Tom on size. Smaller and cabin space is like a pup tent, larger and trailering takes on special requirements.

I'll go beyond having sailor friends teach you to advocating a sailing course. It's like the difference between having uncle Pete teach you to drive and going to a performance driving school. But, shop this - some can be too classroom and bookish or they can be aimed at you leasing a boat for a Caribbean vacation. Look for a solid hands-on small boat sailing class geared to lake sailors.

Do this before you purchase a boat and you'll get an opportunity to experience at least one boat, maybe more. Sail/crew with friends and neighbors to check out their boats. The insight is invaluable to helping you find something you'll be comfortable sailing. Things like cockpit vs cabin space; Can it be single-handed; Head (toilet); Berths - privacy - all singles; Galley arrangement; Motor size; Furling (sail-up storage).

If you are dead set on seat of the pants learning, get a 14' dinghy first, like a Capri 14.2 and a good book on basic sailing like Bob Bond's Sailing Handbook. When you have your sailing basics mastered, trade up.

My 2 cents

 

[AaronR]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

If I were to purchase a 14' first what are my chances of being able to keep it upright in rough water? It scares me to try something that small because I have a 16' aluminum fishing boat and you couldn't pay me to take it out on the lake during busy times for fear of swamping.

 

[saildan]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

If I were to purchase a 14' first what are my chances of being able to keep it upright in rough water? It scares me to try something that small because I have a 16' aluminum fishing boat and you couldn't pay me to take it out on the lake during busy times for fear of swamping.

It would be about the same as your 16', but much more stable since the sailboat doesn't swamp in the same way. They can be righted single-handedly and self-bail as you get going again. Unlike a fishing boat that just stays swamped until someone tows you in to a beach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoPqyFZzMvo


So, get into a good class and experience some different boats. That'll give you a real basis for your selection.

 

[AaronR]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

I've been looking into sailing classes and a single beginners two day course here costs more than a small sailboat. Around $700+ where I have found 14' sailboats for $300-$500. Is a sailing class really worth $350 a day?

 

[saildan]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

I've been looking into sailing classes and a single beginners two day course here costs more than a small sailboat. Around $700+ where I have found 14' sailboats for $300-$500. Is a sailing class really worth $350 a day?

Nope, that's ridiculous, unless it's private one-on-one instruction for an 8 hour day with a catered lunch.

The Red Cross and many sailing clubs conduct small boat sailing classes for $200 to $500 for a three - four week course (week night classroom, weekend sailing).

Sounds like you found a course to prepare you to lease a bare boat for a Caribbean vacation.

Keep shopping -

Look out on the lake summer evenings and weekends for gatherings of sailboats that would likely be local racing. Find their launch and ask someone there if they know of an instruction course.

Check other lakes in the region. Check for sailing clubs. Look for small sailboat dealers - Hobie, Laser, Sunfish, E-Scow, 420, 470, 505, J24. If clubs or dealers don't hold a class they often know where one is held.

No matter what boat you learn basic sailing on the techniques apply all around, only the particular boat's setup is slightly different. It's like cars, the radio and defogger knob might be in a different location, but the function's the same. And a Mini Cooper handles differently than a Suburban, but they still drive down the same road in the same manner.

Don't give up - I trust you'll find just what you're looking for with some persistence.

 

[davlafont]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

I learned to sail as a kid in a Sunfish. I'm not suggesting that for your circumstances, but I mention it because it gave me an understanding for the balance between wind direction, boat heading, and sail trim. I've recently piloted my brother's J24 and it all came back like riding a bike. So I second the recommendation to start small with something easily handled solo and get a feel for sailing. It's important to learn good habits regarding rigging, stowing gear, coiling of ropes/lines/sheets and a smaller boat is a good way to start.

BTW, what sort of sailboats do you see on the lake now? That might be a good indicator of what boats are suited to the conditions.

 

[AaronR]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

I see very few on the lake now, most being 30' or more in length. I think over the winter I'll look for a small boat, ~14' to learn on. Mostly I just hate to pay a crazy amount for sailing classes when once I purchase the boat I can join the local sail club and even though my boat will be a lot smaller and less expensive than theirs I'm sure I'll still be able to gain valuable advice. In the past I've learned that sometimes hands on experience develops the best knowledge.

 

[Mark SF]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

I think you should start by doing a good course which gets you an ASA Basic Keelboat qualification. In my case it cost $500 for 4 days which although not cheap, as an investment for a lifetime of safe and fun sailing seems quite reasonable. I also thoroughly enjoyed the class itself. As that price is in the SF Bay I would have thought that would be at the upper end of the price range - just as most things here cost more than anywhere else!

One day I'll do the Coastal Cruising and trade the boat up, but for now I'm enjoying sailing my Wayfarer on SF Bay. It's a 16ft boat which is much more seaworthy than the 14ft dinghies like the Capri.

I would have thought it would be fine where you are sailing too. But there are also lots of daysailers in the 16 to 24ft range which have drop keels, adding a level of safety over a centreboard boat, and are trailerable but seaworthy - certainly happy in a 3ft chop.

But invest in your training first, sailing can be dangerous and as a skipper you are responsible for your passengers safety as well as that of everyone else on the water.

 

[AaronR]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

Locally training is nonexistent. I would have to fly to a coastal area to find affordable training. Locally training costs 350$ per day, which is more than I believe it is worth. That is for sure more than it's worth to me, if its necessary to have ~1000$ or more in training before purchasing a boat maybe sailing isn't for me.

 

[saildan]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

Locally training is nonexistent. I would have to fly to a coastal area to find affordable training. Locally training costs 350$ per day, which is more than I believe it is worth. That is for sure more than it's worth to me, if its necessary to have ~1000$ or more in training before purchasing a boat maybe sailing isn't for me.

No kidding. ASA is good program content, but Damn they're proud of it. Interestingly, the more land-locked the clientel the higher the cost of the course seems to get.

In Chicago you get 15 hours (5 half days) on the water for $510 - http://www.chicagosailing.com/lessons_basic101.asp

San Francisco, 5 days $300 - http://www.sfsailing.org/san-francisco-sailing-classes/sailing-class-introduction

More examples - UCLA Recreation Center, Northwesrtern University, many many communities all have programs that teach sound, safe small boat sailing for just a couple of hundred dollars.

I'm sorry to hear they have you by the short hairs and are tugging hard. Certification (if it's USCG certification) will get you a bare boat rental, but doesn't mean squat for sailing your own boat on your local lake.

Get a copy of Bob Bonds Handbook of Sailing and find a neighbor who really sails rather than motors a sailboat around cocktail crusing. Sign on as crew and buy lunch.

,

 

[emoney]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

Well, totally on the opposite side of the coin, here I come;

I've been in the exact situation you're in very recently. As a matter of fact,
I'm still in the learning stages of becoming an average sailor. I chose the
'Buy a boat, THEN learn the ropes' and I haven't been "too" disappointed with
that decision. I had never sailed before, and had only been on a sailboat once in my life. I'd spent several years on the water in a powerboat, like most people. I found a very inexpensive US 22 that need my attention and lots of it. By the time I had her in sailing shape, I had read/viewed/downloaded/copied off of other people and anything else that comes to the imagination closely related to studying, sailing related materials. I've had a great time and I believe I'm smarter for the venture. Next year, I plan to move up into the 30' range.

Having said that, look for a 22' - 25' sailboat that's been set-up or can easily be set-up for singlehandling, spend some serious time asking lots of questions, and go have yourself a blast.

 

[Woodbinekeith]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

A one week cruise to learn sail with 3 or 4 others is a great experience and you come away with a 1st level sailing certificate. One word of caution - make sure you know/are compatible with the other participants. I learned the hard way that going out for a week in cramped quarters can be less than productive if you choose to go with strangers who may/may not know each other. Time is precious and nobody gets all the hands on they want at helming, in particular. It the captain/instructor is not firm, it can be a long and discouraging week.

 

[isaksp00]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

If you do decide to go ahead, and don't want to go with a daysailer, dinghy style boat - you may want to consider a Hunter 23, from about the late 80's to early 90's. These are keel boats with a wing keel, no centerboard (except for the very early years, I think). I just bought one, and use it on a decent size lake with a lot of powerboat wakes. I do have sailing experience, however find the boat pretty easy to handle and reasonably stable - very unlikely you could have a knockdown, unless you sail in really severe weather.

Do you intend to overnight? That will determine how small you'd be willing to go. IMHO, I'd not be too comfortable in less than about a 30 footer with a proper head to overnight - though I'm spoiled, having crewed on or chartered mostly from the mid-30's to 48.

Depending on condition, you could get one for about 2500 to maybe 6000 (if in really good shape). This is a trailerable boat, though you would not want to launch it each time you sailed (trailer is good for winter storage) - but you have a slip, so no issue. The iron keel can take some work if rusted, but it is only about 2' 3" draft (how deep is your slip?). Clearing the rust is mostly just drudge work, and the messiness it displays can help drop the price.

If you are somewhat handy with repairs, you should be able to deal with most things you'd need to do to spruce one up.

Have you ever sailed? Trying to crew is a very good idea, as you'd get a sense of whether you understand the principles pretty readily, and thus could make do with minimal or informal training.

 

[ghamby]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

If I could get $350 a day to teach sailing, I'd quit the day job. Get yourself a
16' O'Day or equivalent and a good sailing book. The Boy Scout Merit Badge
guide for sailing isn't bad.Read or watch everything you can on the subject.
You can already handle a 16' skiff. Go out on a weekday and go salin'.
Good Luck, GH

 

[wanna-be]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

before u buy anything you must understand the sailor's motto "everythings borken you just don't know it yet" if you get an engine propelled, be ready to spend some $$$ on repairs unless your a mechanic. parts aren't cheap either.

also, keel boats are not trailerable except for winter storage and require and a crane to launch. you have to launch at a yacht club as reg marinas don't have cranes.

i sail weekly on inland lakes and lakes are gusty to nil. you need to know how to manage sudden gusty winds, how to sail close and down wind. last year i moved up from a 13 to 16 and wow, big difference. id recommend u begin with 13'-16' w/main, jib, center boards. sailing is a skill thats learned by "TOW" (time-on-water). have fun and be safe.

 

[CuriousChris]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

Hi Newb
I started sailing 3 years ago. I built a dinghy from plans and just went out and learned. It took about a year to be really comfortable and know what to do to be safe. I sail in lake Ontario and it can get crazy bad very quickly. If you are the least bit handy you can have a boat done up by the spring ready to get wet... or stay dry. My 15 feet Skerry has safely brought me home in 6 feet waves. Not much fun really but it was a lesson to learn.

It only took a couple of times out before I could toodle my way around so its not particularly difficult to figure out. I always carry oars. You will see how easy it is to get going, lessons work but a quiet afternoon getting acquainted with a boat is a nice way to spend some time and doesnt cost a penny.

I just bought a small keelboat to take me to the next level and handle heavier conditions. It is a Tanzer 22. There are lots of them around and they have a good reputation as first keelboat. It needed a bit of fixing up and that helped me getting used to the boat. They can be had for $2-3000.

I think the dinghy first then small keelboat is a good way to learn and no one takes advantage of you. I moor/store my boats at a small sailing club and people are really friendly and helpful.

If youre interested I talk more about boatbuilding and sailing on my website. http:www.christinedemerchant.com/skerry.html (I'm not selling anything!!!)

Good luck
Christine

 

[emoney]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

BTW, buying a 'project' is never a bad idea if you're ready for the time and commitment it takes. Notice I didn't say skill, because outside of a very few arenas, you can learn most anything. Plus, this forum and the rest of the web is full of free advice and tips from folks who've actually been there before. As a matter of fact, most have encountered the exact issue at hand. I know, because I've gained what little skill & insight I have from forums like this and others. Have someone help you find the right 'project', because there's also the sob story of the "free boat" that wasn't worth it.
While you're repairing/replacing, you're becoming familiar with the boat and how she works. Couple that with some reading, you-tube "how to" video watching, question asking, etc. and you'll be well on your way to becoming an accomplished sailor! Here's a link that shows a little of the progress I've made in my first sailboat endeavour. There's nothing here to brag about so I don't have to worry about that and this proves that if I can do it, anybody can!

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/bucc220/

Good luck and keep us informed what direction you go!

 

[Link]

Re: Newb looking into purchasing a sailboat

No kidding. ASA is good program content, but Damn they're proud of it. Interestingly, the more land-locked the clientel the higher the cost of the course seems to get.

In Chicago you get 15 hours (5 half days) on the water for $510 - http://www.chicagosailing.com/lessons_basic101.asp

San Francisco, 5 days $300 - http://www.sfsailing.org/san-francisco-sailing-classes/sailing-class-introduction

More examples - UCLA Recreation Center, Northwesrtern University, many many communities all have programs that teach sound, safe small boat sailing for just a couple of hundred dollars.

I'm sorry to hear they have you by the short hairs and are tugging hard. Certification (if it's USCG certification) will get you a bare boat rental, but doesn't mean squat for sailing your own boat on your local lake.

Get a copy of Bob Bonds Handbook of Sailing and find a neighbor who really sails rather than motors a sailboat around cocktail crusing. Sign on as crew and buy lunch.

,

Dan I agree with your post.
Arron
Check into your local CC (Clollege) for sailing lessons.
In our area they offer a 4 night course and a 3 hour sailing lesson. $150.00
It was pretty basic as the front end of the boat is the pointy end.
They didn't cover doubled enders!

As a life long fisherman I know how to read water.
But as a Sailor I had never thought about reading the water for sailing!
That was impressive to say the least.

Get with your local sailers.

Fair winds as they say.

Link