Newb needs opinnions please

[The Dougler]

Hey everyone, I'm 100% new to boating and need some advice from some veterans. I'm looking at purchasing my first boat and while trying to narrow it down and do research about what to look out for I've been lurking around here for some time now. Anyways I went and looked at this boat in person yesterday and thought it looked pretty good, but I have some questions.

I checked underneath the floor in the locker and it was wet, had some water, the owner even went so far as to build a little shelf so he could store stuff without it getting wet. It has been raining here a lot lately, and Im not sure if the water is something I should be concerned about (I will get a surveyor out before I purchase) I noticed on the underside of the bow cushions that they were damp to. The other spot that drew my attention was the extended swim platform, I can't tell if it was the Factory Larson one, or a dealer installed one, and the caulking around the mount rose some suspicion (pic below) I don't know if that's something I should be concerned about either.

Other than that the boat showed very clean, hull appeared in great shape, no scratches or anything, skag and prop looked in great shape as well. As shown in the picture below the outdrive and motor look to be in great shape too. Motor sounded smooth and I did not notice any odd noises. Valves were quiet and it idled great.

Another question I have is that the trailer has oil bath style hubs, are there any concern with these over traditional grease ones? Secondly, for a tow vehicle will a Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.7L V8 be sufficient? The boats weighs 2300# dry I believe the Jeep is rated to 5000#, but is there any concern using a short wheelbase vehicle such as the Jeep?

Without further adu, here are some pics, 2004 Larson SEI 180 Bowrider 3.0L Merc. The guy is asking $13,900, which I think is high, I figure $11 is closer to a fair price. What do you guys think? I'm in Canada FWIW, so prices will be a little different then down south.

Sorry for the Camera Phone pics.

Swim Platform Mount I mentioned.

TIA for any comments/suggestions.

 

[The Dougler]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

Here are some more pics from the original ad that are better than my camera phone pics.

These are the pics from the Ad.

 

[puddleboater]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

Jeep Grand Cherokee will tow that puppy with no problem. I've seen Jeep Cherokees towing a 27 footer (with twin Mercruisers) once. Not a great idea, but I've seen it. Also, you need to figure in the weight of the trailer, additional equipment, passengers, fuel, and such, when figuring the total towed weight.

The current owner should have covered the boat and not let it get soaked. I've been guilty of that when I was a newb.
Soaking is less of a problem if the boat doesn't have wood stringers. If the stringers are wood and they're encapsulated with glass, a temporary soaking would be ok, so long as the water was drained out immediatly after the rain. However, glassed over or not, rot eventually sets on the wood stringers. If the water stayed in the boat for a number of days, well..............

If the owner would let you, try lifting parts of the carpet off of the deck. You'll see by the condition of the plywood deck of whether or not rot has set in. You'll either see discoloration, feel soft spots, or deterioration of the deck itself. Otherwise, the pics of the boat look good.

 

[werthert]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

Get the inspection. That will tell you what you need to know.
Here's something to think about.
If a seller isn't willing to get the water out even when trying to sell it, that would tell me that he hasn't maintained it very well and doesn't care too much about it.
If inspection says no water damage, get yourself a cover asap. A cover is a must. Water is the enemy and belongs on the outside of a boat.

 

[WAVENBYE2]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

Have the engine checked out real good too, look for cracks in the block, A boat could look great but with a cracked block?? well thats another story. Other things can be cracked as well check them out too. For that kind of money I would go over it with a close eye.

 

[The Dougler]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

Jeep Grand Cherokee will tow that puppy with no problem. I've seen Jeep Cherokees towing a 27 footer (with twin Mercruisers) once. Not a great idea, but I've seen it. Also, you need to figure in the weight of the trailer, additional equipment, passengers, fuel, and such, when figuring the total towed weight.

The current owner should have covered the boat and not let it get soaked. I've been guilty of that when I was a newb.
Soaking is less of a problem if the boat doesn't have wood stringers. If the stringers are wood and they're encapsulated with glass, a temporary soaking would be ok, so long as the water was drained out immediatly after the rain. However, glassed over or not, rot eventually sets on the wood stringers. If the water stayed in the boat for a number of days, well..............

If the owner would let you, try lifting parts of the carpet off of the deck. You'll see by the condition of the plywood deck of whether or not rot has set in. You'll either see discoloration, feel soft spots, or deterioration of the deck itself. Otherwise, the pics of the boat look good.

He did have it covered, in the pics the covers are off, and maybe he let it sit for a few days without, but it comes with the forward bow cover and the cockpit cover. The boat has the fiberglass liner, so no wood would come in contact with water, it has the snap in style carpets which were out when i viewed it. No soft spots at all.

Get the inspection. That will tell you what you need to know.
Here's something to think about.
If a seller isn't willing to get the water out even when trying to sell it, that would tell me that he hasn't maintained it very well and doesn't care too much about it.
If inspection says no water damage, get yourself a cover asap. A cover is a must. Water is the enemy and belongs on the outside of a boat.

I will for sure get an inspection, and have always planned too. We didnt get it out on the water, but the owner said that wouldn't be a problem if I were to get more serious about it.

Have the engine checked out real good too, look for cracks in the block, A boat could look great but with a cracked block?? well thats another story. Other things can be cracked as well check them out too. For that kind of money I would go over it with a close eye.

We started it with muffs on it and it sounded good. I also felt and sniffed the oil, it was probably midway through a change cycle, not brand new, but not old either. Did not smell burnt at all, and was smooth to the touch, no gritty sensation or anything like that.


When getting inspections done, is it best to do it before negotiating a price? What does it normally cost to get one done?

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

...When getting inspections done, is it best to do it before negotiating a price? What does it normally cost to get one done?

Well, you've got his asking price - which I agree is high. The survey may bring to light some other issues that will help you decide if you want to bargain it down or, depending on the severity, walk away. I think one for that boat might be a couple of hundred dollars. It's a nice looking boat, though.

Another thing about the price. That's a 3.0 in the boat -- the smallest motor there is for an I/O. This means it's probably a base trim level. Compare that price he's asking to some new boats and see what you can get. Especially this time of year. I'm not knocking the 3.0 by any means. We had one in our SeaRay and, while no hotrod, it made for a great economical boat to run -- it really sips the fuel in comparison some of the bigger motors.

That swim platform is a bit of a mystery to me. Looks definietly added on and while it's great to have the extra room I think in the long run it may be a bit of a pain. I'd like to see if it catches the wake as you try to get up on plane. Looks to me like it sticks way out there and it might dig in a bit and cause some drag as your bow rises on acceleration, which is something you definitely don't want. It would also put a lot of strain on those mounts (and your transom). Anyway, something to check out on the sea trial.

One other thing about surveys on small boats. A lot of folks do just hulls and leave the motor alone. If you want to be thorough get a marine mechanic to go over the motor separately.

Good luck and welcome to iboats!

 

[The Dougler]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

Well, you've got his asking price - which I agree is high. The survey may bring to light some other issues that will help you decide if you want to bargain it down or, depending on the severity, walk away. I think one for that boat might be a couple of hundred dollars. It's a nice looking boat, though.

Another thing about the price. That's a 3.0 in the boat -- the smallest motor there is for an I/O. This means it's probably a base trim level. Compare that price he's asking to some new boats and see what you can get. Especially this time of year. I'm not knocking the 3.0 by any means. We had one in our SeaRay and, while no hotrod, it made for a great economical boat to run -- it really sips the fuel in comparison some of the bigger motors.

That swim platform is a bit of a mystery to me. Looks definietly added on and while it's great to have the extra room I think in the long run it may be a bit of a pain. I'd like to see if it catches the wake as you try to get up on plane. Looks to me like it sticks way out there and it might dig in a bit and cause some drag as your bow rises on acceleration, which is something you definitely don't want. It would also put a lot of strain on those mounts (and your transom). Anyway, something to check out on the sea trial.

One other thing about surveys on small boats. A lot of folks do just hulls and leave the motor alone. If you want to be thorough get a marine mechanic to go over the motor separately.

Good luck and welcome to iboats!

You raise some great points. I know I could get into a brand new bayliner for about the same price (same engine/length). I've also seen some great boats down stateside which could be worth importing if I was able to get the right price. IIRC I saw a Four Winns with a 4.3 for 14k USD, which in the long run may be a way better option in terms of options and potential resale value, plus I have a total hard on for Four Winns boats.

I agree with the 3.0 being the base boat, in this size it's definietly the base engine, well it seems many manufacturers offer the volvo as the base and the merc as a trade up for $500-$1K, I don't see how either engine is all that different from each other. (I'm a car nut, but know little about marine engines).

Thanks for the welcome to Iboats, I'm a forum junkie (automotive) but it's great to see another canuck on here. Where do you do most of your boating?

 

[dhook]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

I checked underneath the floor in the locker and it was wet, had some water, the owner even went so far as to build a little shelf so he could store stuff without it getting wet. It has been raining here a lot lately, and Im not sure if the water is something I should be concerned about (I will get a surveyor out before I purchase) I noticed on the underside of the bow cushions that they were damp to. The other spot that drew my attention was the extended swim platform, I can't tell if it was the Factory Larson one, or a dealer installed one, and the caulking around the mount rose some suspicion (pic below) I don't know if that's something I should be concerned about either.



I bought a 2005 180 Sei Larson BW Just 4 weeks ago. It was in immacualte shape much like this one. Mine has the 4.3 mercruiser on it. He wanted 13K I offered him 11K he initially said 12 then contacted me 4 days later and said he'd take 11 cash ( He wanted to buy his girl a car).

I went out for a test run and everything seemed brand new. I was very pleased with the boat 4800 rpm 52 MPH at WOT and being a first time buyer looked it over and researched things on this boat quite a bit before I bought it. one of the things I came across,theres a Larson Boat owners forum here and I cant remember if its there or some other web site where I saw that Larson didn't drill that drain hole LOW enough in the locker to let all the water drain down into the bilge to get it out and about 1/2 inch stays in that compartment unless ya take a towel or shop vac it out.


Another question I have is that the trailer has oil bath style hubs, are there any concern with these over traditional grease ones? Secondly, for a tow vehicle will a Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.7L V8 be sufficient? The boats weighs 2300# dry I believe the Jeep is rated to 5000#, but is there any concern using a short wheelbase vehicle such as the Jeep?

I am towing mine with a 98 Cherokee Sport 4.0I and of course its got plenty of muscle but as you fear the short wheel base lends the boat to muscleing the Cherokee rather than vice versa. I Do believe adding heavy duty springs and shocks will even this out somewhat. Having said that I would haul my boat anywhere with it, just have to take it slow and easy and allow plenty of time for stops.

Hope this helps:

 

[scoutabout]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

LOL - being a car nut you will see pretty quick how primitive that little 3.0 is but we still enjoyed it. Totally bullet-proof running for a dozen or so years and I know it's still going strong for the guy who salvaged it after it sank once (long story). A lot of people are down on the 3.0 for its relatively low power so that may indeed may play a factor come resale time. It's all down to what you want and getting the best bang for your buck. I'd definitely shop around, though. Up here it's the best time of year.

Going stateside might be an option too. That's what I did with the Scout. After scouring central Canada and most of the States online this one appeared down near Wilmington, SC. It was worth it to me to buy a one way flight down, rent a U-haul truck, drive to the guy's house for a sea trial, do the deal, and tow it a thousand miles home. Crazy, I know but I was after this specific boat and there were like four used ones for sale in a 5,000 km radius of where I live...

As for boating, I've regularly done Lake Ontario, the Muskokas, Georgian Bay, Magnetewan River system, Lake Simcoe, Trent-Severn waterway, etc, etc. I live outside of Toronto.

 

[The Dougler]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

Found another one, 2001 same boat as before but with a 4.3l. I'm not sure if I dig the carpet though, the fiberglass liners look a lot nicer IMO. What do you guys think a realistic price would be?

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...01-Larson-180-SEi-Bowrider-W0QQAdIdZ161522661

 

[WAVENBYE2]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

Looks sharp, and with pro maintenance logs too, could be worth looking into

 

[strokeoluck]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

Our boat info is down by my signature. We pull it with a 2008 Honda Pilot ex-L 6-banger with no problem. A couple thoughts for you:

- after doing a fair amount of research I decided to buy the 4.3L over the 3.0L. I'm glad we did. On our most expensive day on the water I think we used $15 or $20 worth of gas. The thrill the kids get from gunning the boat (and frankly, Dad gets a bit of a thrill too) is priceless. Also, there are times we've had 8 people in the boat, and I was DARN glad we had the 4.3L those days. Hopefully you can recoup some of the additional engine cost when it's time to sell.

- as for the "what's it worth" questions, I have no doubt the friendly folks on iboats will chime in frequently. What I did was shopped for about 4-5 months and created a spreadsheet of brands, lengths, engine, bells and whistles, etc. and then started dialing in on what I wanted and what it was probably worth in my market. Granted, I didn't inspect them all but you can get a general feel by looking at pictures of the boat and trailer how well the owner took care of it (not everything, but you can get a feel). With that info it was a whole lot easier to go shopping.

FYI in Minnesota I paid $9k for our boat/trailer w/hardwired Lowrance GPS. And - gasp! - I even bought it in the dead of winter w/out a sea trial or a mechanic inspection. While it doesn't have a prestigious brand name, it's performed great on the water.

Good luck!

 

[JoLin]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

I made the deal on my current boat just before Xmas last year, and I thought the terms benefitted both the dealer and I:

We negotiated the price CONTINGENT upon the results of survey and sea trial in the Spring. That gave me first right of refusal. The dealer could accept other offers if he wanted, but only mine counted unless and until I pulled out of the deal.

I put down 10%. The stipulation was that if I simply changed my mind over the Winter, there was the possibility that I would lose that money. The dealer assured me that he doesn't work that way, but you never know. I had to at least go through with the inspection (at my expense) and trial to guarantee getting it all back if I didn't want the boat. That gave the dealer some level of comfort that I was a serious buyer.

Survey and sea trial were completed in May. A few miinor issues were revealed that the dealer agreed to fix gratis. Depending on the severity of issues uncovered, we could have negotiated the cost of repairs, renegotiated the price of the boat... or, I could have simply walked away and gotten my deposit back. The dealer could then move on to the next buyer in line, if there was one.

I thought it was a fair way of doing the deal. Let's face it, the dealer deserves some level of comfort in these transactions. It's a major pain for him to arrange a sea trial for somebody who turns out to be a window shopper.

 

[Dave1251]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

The swim platform is not a factory original. It looks well made, but poorly installed. There are only four small bolts through the transom with little backing plates. If you buy this boat, I would correctly install the swim platform with addional/larger bolts and better backing to spread the load.

The other issues are easly corrected and should not be of much concern. Most boats we service stored outside has small amounts of water in the ski locker. That is because all snap covers leak in heavy rains.

However, the boat is underpowered for most water sports,

 

[The Dougler]

Re: Newb needs opinnions please

The swim platform is not a factory original. It looks well made, but poorly installed. There are only four small bolts through the transom with little backing plates. If you buy this boat, I would correctly install the swim platform with addional/larger bolts and better backing to spread the load.

The other issues are easly corrected and should not be of much concern. Most boats we service stored outside has small amounts of water in the ski locker. That is because all snap covers leak in heavy rains.

However, the boat is underpowered for most water sports,

Thanks for the great info, I've moved on, I'm looking in the states now. Lots more to choose from thats for sure. How are 2000 era Wellcrafts? and 5L Volvos?