no spark again, different motor

[robtherep]

hello<br /> I’m working on a johnson 60 horse 1970 (60ESL7OB) the ignition switch at the throttle needs repairing so i attached wires to all 6 locations on switch and this is what i have tried by conecting different arrays of these wires at the ignition switch positive hot to what i guess is ignition and i get spark on one plug once when wire touches then other plug when i turn flywheel and touch hot to ignition again, then 3ed plug. this i think must indicate that the possibility of spark is there if i figure out how to wire it. when i touch hot to starter wire it engages but no spark. i then figured that i need to connect hot to ignition (which causes an ongoing ticking or spark sound somewhere) then touch starter wire. the result is no spark on any of the plugs which are out and grounded while starter is turning engin over. my theory could be all wrong since i realy no very little about motors. thanks a lot in advance.

 

[itstippy]

Re: no spark again, different motor

Randomly applying 12 volts to various wires in the ignition switch is a terrible idea. You may very well burn out something and cause more problems in addition to the original one. Whoever comes along later that knows what they're doing and tries to troubleshoot the problem will be most unhappy with you.<br />Scroll to the top of this page and look about 2/3 of the way down, in the center. You'll find a red "search" button. Click that and search under keywords "ignition switch wiring" or something similar. Troubleshooting the ignition switch wiring has been covered several times on this forum by real pro's. Find those old posts and read them and learn. You will need to know all the wires involved by color ("purple wire with yellow stripe", that sort of thing). Good luck.

 

[robtherep]

Re: no spark again, different motor

Thank you i will get a manual. For now though does anyone know why the spark doesn’t work when i put the wire that i think is ignition to the hot and turn the engin over there is no spark. soulden’t these 3 combined give it spark. and dose the fact that the plugs spark every time i touch this ignition wire to the hot at the switch not indicate that coils etc. are working?<br />thank you

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: no spark again, different motor

If the wire you think is hot, and it is black with a white stripe, you took the breaker points to a dead short. If you applied 12 volts to the same wire going to the pack, it won't like that either. That ignition system is battery capacitor discharge. If you stumble around touching wire's until something happens, it will! Have you seen any puff's of smoke in your test's so far?

 

[robtherep]

Re: no spark again, different motor

Found little letters on switch so i now know what the wires are for. 6 wires total leave out choke and accessories (C&A) that leaves B battery, S start and M magneto and another M magneto. <br />Since the warnings i guess putting B to M is not a good idea. since it’s already done though does the fact that plugs get spark when this is done )as indicated in beginning of this tread) indicate that the coils and things under the flywheel are working? Putting the 2 Ms together and cranking engin also doesn’t produce spark. why are there 2 Ms? The one that produces spark is purple and has a black ball attached to it. the other one is black. If we also eliminate start then there are only 2 Ms and a B to consider. or should A be involved in getting spark as well .<br />thanks

 

[itstippy]

Re: no spark again, different motor

You do not understand how the ignition switch works. Do the "search" I recommended in my first post and read. There are step-by-step troubleshooting procedures written by experts who have repaired dozens and dozens of these things. Their advice is priceless and free at the same time!<br />My (1963) motor is inherently in "spark" as you call it. With the ignition switch completely disconnected I can touch a set of jumper cables to the starter and the engine will run. And I can't shut it off unless I choke it to death. The two wires running to the ignition switch from the magento are to ground out the points to make the motor stop. If I were really bored I could hook up 12 volts of power to them. That would give me something to do, like pull the flywheel to replace electrical components.

 

[robtherep]

Re: no spark again, different motor

Thank you. so the Ms are for turning off the engin. i did do the search and didn’t find any info on my switch. it’s become a bit of an obsession to me but then most things of this nature do. the hot terminal must connect to something and all that is left is A and that doesn’t work so maybe the problem is elsewhere. i am heading your advice and like i said, i am going by info i obtained earlier and no longer holding B to randon terminals. <br />what i'm looking for is an answere like connect B to A then crank. there must be a simple solutin like in the run positiion these are the wires that go together then i could go on from the switch and check out different components.<br />thanks

 

[Tom Scully]

Re: no spark again, different motor

In the run position the switch disconnects the M wires from each other; ie: removes the ground from the magneto which allows spark to be generated.<br />So, disconnect the M's and crank is all you should have to do to get spark.

 

[itstippy]

Re: no spark again, different motor

I did a quick search of "Ignition switch wiring" and found this:<br /><br />B---positive battery--usually at start solenoid-normally protected with 20 amp fuse.<br />A---accesories-hot when switch is on<br />C---choke-hot when key is pushed in to choke position<br />S---starter-hot when switch is held over to start position<br />M and M---magneto-one M is connected to ground -black- and the other is connected to kill wire-black with yellow stripe-. When switch is off these two are shorted together.<br /><br />--------------------<br />Bubbakat <br />In order to catch fish, you have to drink like a fish.<br />or is that think like a fish.<br /><br />So here's what you do, Roboat:<br />B is your hot from the battery. <br />Connect B to S to engage the starter motor and fire the engine. You might also temporarily connect B to C while doing this to activate the electric choke. Turn them loose once the engine starts so you don't burn up your starter.<br />Connect the two M's together when you want to stop the motor.<br />Connect B to A to test your accessories like the radio or the running lights.

 

[v12mac]

Re: no spark again, different motor

Don’t worry you are not the first to be confused by OMC ignition wiring especially if you try to use your existing knowledge of automotive electrics. Just think of it like a big weed eater. Ground to kill the spark.<br />Mac

 

[robtherep]

Re: no spark again, different motor

Thank you everyone for all the help. i realized that there were other reasons for not getting any spark finaly caved in and took it in for repair. it’s probably something under the flywheel. thanks again