No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

[Zep--]

Got my slow cranking issue solved (bum new battery) turns over fine now.

However, After checking all 3 plugs I have no spark on any.

What should I check?

Is there a kill switch on this model that might be stuck?

I want to avoid pulling the flywheel for now. So where should I start looking as far as the ignition system?

The ?stator? was replaced a year ago when it last ran.

Thanks!
Carl

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

With the problems you had with the starter, you may have blown the rectifier. That particular motor will not start if the rectifier is bad.

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

Got my slow cranking issue solved (bum new battery) turns over fine now.

However, After checking all 3 plugs I have no spark on any.

What should I check?

Is there a kill switch on this model that might be stuck?

I want to avoid pulling the flywheel for now. So where should I start looking as far as the ignition system?

The ?stator? was replaced a year ago when it last ran.

Thanks!
Carl

First charge the battery right up. That motor has a battery-powered CD ignition, triggered by points under the flywheel. It'll act flaky with a low battery.

First thing to check is that you're getting 12V to the CD box (red wire, with the ignition on). If so, find the wire to the point - that wire travels from the CD box, under the flywheel, to the points. Disconnect the coupler on that wire. Then pull the fat wire that leads from the ignition coil to the distributor (under the flywheel). The fat wire end is threaded, you'll need to turn it, not just pull it. Put the free end of the wire near somewhere where it can spark if it wants to. Next turn the ignition on (NOT to start, just to on), and intermittently ground the points wire. You should get a spark at the fat wire every time you ground the points wire. If not, it's likely your CD pack is blown.

 

[Zep--]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

Thanks Ledgefinder! I will try that tonight.

The battery has a good charge, it cranks nicely.

I thought about trying to spark the coil wire last night, but being new to this..I thought I was going to have to remove the flywheel to remove the coil wire..duh! I didn't know it spun off and I pulled it a bit last night to remove it from under the flywheel with no luck

Am I right to assume "righty tighty-lefty loosey" on the coil wire?

I'm not quite sure what the "CD Pack" is. Does one of the little wires from the coil go to the CD Pack?

I guess I can trace all the wires that come from under the flywheel and figure it out, but any extra info is appreciated!

BHile: Where's the rectifier located?

I feel I'm getting closer to solving this!
Thanks for all the help!
Carl

 

[Zep--]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

I need a little help/advice.

there are 5 wires total going into or around the flywheel.

3 from Spark Plugs, 1 from the Coil, 2 from some big juntion screw box where a lot of other wires are screwed in there in different places, and a tiny wire from the coil.

My question is.. Which one is going to the Points?
I thought it would be the tiny wire from the Coil but I want to ask here first (before I destroy something accidently)

Thanks,
Carl

 

[Zep--]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

Since i'm not sure which wire goes to the points as in the tip as few posts abouve this one...I tried this:

1. Disconnected coil wire from under flywheel

2. Held the unscrewed tip over a ground while someone else turned the key to crank it.

Should The coil wire have been sparking that way? (it wasn't)

Thanks for any help!
Carl

 

[Zep--]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

Update:

What I tried next...

1. Disconnected coil wire from under flywheel but leaving the other end connected to the coil.

2. cut the little wire on the MINUS side of the coil (I assumed that goes up to the points)

3. turned key to ON.

4. Held tip of coil wire close to a ground.

5. Tapped tiny coil wire from the MINUS side to ground.

6. Big blue spark from tip of BIG Coil wire to the ground every time i tapped the tiny wire to ground (which also sparked a tiny bit each time)

I'm guessing that's a good sign (sorta)

So to continue my No Spark troubleshooting, what's the next step?

Thanks in advance!
Carl
ps. Also ordered a Seloc Repair Manual from this site for my motor today.

 

[F_R]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

Huh?? That doesn't make sense. Has somebody converted that motor to battery ignition and eliminated the amplifier? That's what it sounds like to me. The amplifier is a black box approx 2 1/2" x 4" or thereabouts.

If it is a conversion and momentary grounding of the points wire produces a spark off the coil, the points are not making and breaking and you will need to pull the flywheel.

BTW, not meaning to demean anybody or start an argument, but the rectifier only has to do with charging the battery and has nothing to do with the ignition---unless the battery goes dead.

 

[Zep--]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

Well, if I knew where abouts the amplifier was I could tell you if it has one.

Can you describe where it might be along the wiring route starting at the battery and working towards the engine?

I dread pulling the flywheel!

Thanks!
Carl

 

[papasage]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

don`t think it has points . i know the 1972 doesen`t . the 40 and smaller does

 

[Zep--]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

No points? Are you sure? Now i'm really confused

There are 2 small wires coming from under the flywheel wrapped together. One goes to the coil's minus side and the other one goes to ground.

Does that sound like point wires to anyone?

Thanks!
Carl

 

[F_R]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

I'll guaran-dang-tee you that it came from the factory with points. BTW, they are gapped at .010". Your hookup tells me that somebody has converted your motor to battery ignition. I hope they added a condenser. The points wires normally went to ground and the amplifier.

 

[Zep--]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

There is another small wire coming off the MINUS side of the coil besides the one going up to the points, it goes to what I believe is a condenser. small round tube with a wire going into the center.

Does that sound like the condenser?

Thanks!
Carl

 

[Zep--]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

Since i'm at work now let me describe something else about the wire going to the points.

2 little wires leave the MINUS side of the coil. One goes to what I assume is a condenser as described by someone above. The other wire goes to a lever type thing up by the flywheel.

This is where I see 2 wires coming from under the flywheel (one is the wire from the COIL and the other goes to ground).

Now, this lever thing that those wire come out of, it I move that lever a plate under the flywheel will rotate a bit, not much maybe 1 or 2 or 3 inches (i'm not there looking at it right now but it didn't seem to rotate all that much) inches of travel.

I'm guessing that plate that turns a bit is what the points are attached to?

Just wanted to describe what I am seeing a little better.

Thanks!
Carl

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

I've never heard of a rectifier keeping a motor from starting either. But the manual says it can on that particular motor.

 

[Zep--]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

Where is the rectifier located? I heard you can disconnect it if it's bad and see if the plugs will fire without it connected, is that true?

Thanks!
Carl

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

Recifier is on the starboard side of the motor. It is 1¼" diameter on an oblong mounting piece. It will have 2 yellow and 1 red (or purple) wires going into it.

 

[F_R]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

Well, OK because of the interrelationship of the rectifier and clipper circuit and amplifier B+ input, I will concede that a blown rectifier could prevent starting. However, it is obvious that his motor has been converted to battery ignition, and he is getting power to the coil, as evidenced by spark when he taps the coil (-) wire to ground. So clipper circuit and rectifier are not preventing him from getting spark.....not that the alternator will work though. But that's another topic entirely.

To answer the other question, yes the wires you are talking about do go to the points up under the flywheel. The rotating plate you are talking about provides spark advance/retard as the throttle is moved. And yes, the condenser attached to the coil (-) terminal is part of the battery ignition conversion. You just gotta get that flywheel off and see what's wrong with the points.

Before you ask, you need a puller to get the flywheel off and a torque wrench to re-install it. Flywheel and crankshaft tapers must be clean and dry. Torque the flywheel nut to 70-85 ft/lbs. That reverse cut-out ring that I mentioned earlier should be lubricated very sparingly with just a bit of EP grease.

 

[Zep--]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

Flywheel pullin' time I guess.

Flywheel nut is lefthanded, correct? If so clockwise will loosen it correct?

Also, Since it seems obvious to at least some of you that a battery ignition conversion was done, does that mean running the motor will no longer charge the battery?

Thanks!
Carl
*I may sound like a n00b but back in the day (25+ years) ago I used to tear down and rebuild 2 stroke dirtbikes.
If I ask stupid obvious questions..I'm just being cautious..since it's been a long while since I've done this kind of work.

 

[F_R]

Re: No Spark - Johnson 60hp 1971

No, the nut is a regular right hand thread. Turn counter-clockwise to loosen. And the alternator should still work and charge the battery--that's a separate system.