Oil thread went "POOF"

[LubeDude]

And I thought it was going so well.

 

[Terry H]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

I thought you was done with the oil stuff LD. The last one was going well, but I din't see the last of it, and it can turn nasty fast. So, LD, I guess you ain't had enough yet?

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

I intend to bite my tongue as much as I can, but you all know its in my blood.

 

[BillP]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

Here, bite your tongue again on this cut and paste from another web site............<br /><br />(Pro synthetic guy)<br />I use Pennzoil Synthetic Blend because I can get it at Academy Sports for $6.99/gal. and Bass Pro here will match the price. My 200hpdi has 560 hours running this oil and on the third set of plugs, changed at 235 hours and again at 450 hours - no carbon. I cleaned the O2 sensor at 450 hours and found no carbon, except in the exhaust heater tube but was told that was normal. Some folks get warm fuzzies because they pay $20+ for oil, but I have not seen or heard evidence that more expensive oil is better than Pennxoil Synthetic Blend. <br /><br />(response from another)<br />I called Yamaha directly after buying my boat in 2001, spoke to a factory tech. I asked him if I had to use Yamalube to keep the warranty up. He told me that any TCW-3 oil was fine and Pennzoil Synthetic Blend was a good choice, but the 100% synthetic oils were not recommended in the hpdi motors. <br /><br /><br />Wow, the all synthetic guy changed plugs at 235 hrs. I get more than that on my carbed 2 strokes with regular TCW-3.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

I think the choice of oil does affect plugs somewhat, but I change mine every year. I guess I grew up being taught that, and it kinda stuck.<br />don't feel like stringin' oil types out today, so I'll leave well enough alone.

 

[JB]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

Awl these danged awl threads end up with spittin and hissin.<br /><br />Worse'n politics.

 

[BillP]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

I have a disclaimer for LD...I recently ran a gal of Pennsoil synthetic blend. Oh, the horror of it!<br /><br />Wallyworld changed the container colors of their SuperTech. Anyone know if it's a different mfg from previous color?<br /><br />Ya know, I just couldn't resist.

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

I called Yamaha directly after buying my boat in 2001, spoke to a factory tech. I asked him if I had to use Yamalube to keep the warranty up. He told me that any TCW-3 oil was fine and Pennzoil Synthetic Blend was a good choice, but the 100% synthetic oils were not recommended in the hpdi motors.

Yamalube is the reference oil used for NMMA TCW3 outboard testing. <br /><br />Oils are tested in outboards, engine parts evaluated for wear, carbon, etc., and the results are compared to the reference oil's results.<br /><br />

Wallyworld changed the container colors of their SuperTech. Anyone know if it's a different mfg from previous color?

Warren Distribution still makes the Super Tech TCW3.

 

[BillP]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

Hey OilDoc,<br /><br />Thanks for the info. Does Warren Distribution do oil for anyone else? I remember maybe 15 yrs ago wally oil had Texico on the label in fine print<br /><br />Bill P.

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

Thanks Bill. Warren also makes the Mag1 Brand TCW3 oil along with a bunch of other stuff. Here's a list of their vendors:<br /><br /> http://www.wd-wpp.com/linecard-list.html

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

Wallyworld changed the container colors of their SuperTech. Anyone know if it's a different mfg from previous color?

Warren Distribution still makes the Super Tech TCW3. [/QB][/quote]<br /><br />The NMMA site lists one of the Walmart TC-W3 oils as being made by Shell oil, sense the buyout of Pennzoil by Shell the likly hood is that it is a pennzoil of sorts. Just because it may be made by Pennzoil doesnt mean its the same as Pennzoils 2 cycle oil.<br /><br />It then goes on to list the Super Tech as being made by Warren, evidently there are two different ones.<br /><br />Most of the automotive Super Tech oils are being made and bottled by Warren though.<br /><br /><br />NMMA site

 

[BillP]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

LD, <br />I don't see any debates going on. We are sharing data.<br /><br />Oildoc,<br />Does Warren buy bulk and put private labels on it? If so, do you know what oil company they buy from? Too many years ago a high level manager at the OMC commercial division told me OMC and Merc oil came from the same base crude oil and the only difference was additives.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

I Have been told the same on the merc and J/E oil, but that's been a few years (many) back.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

Originally posted by TheOilDoc:<br />Yamalube is the reference oil used for NMMA TCW3 outboard testing.

OilDoc,<br /><br />I've read your posts since you came aboard and they are pretty well researched. However I have to question your above quote.<br /><br />The TC-W3 Certification Tests use NMMA XPA-3259 reference oil and the NMMA 93738 reference oil, depending on which procedure is done.<br /><br />Yamaha 2M outboard oil is not the reference oil as it does not score the pistons (up to 15% is allowed with the reference oil) and it contains a large percentage of PIB, which is not in the NMMA reference oils.

 

[gss036]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

I like your HEADING, I agree OIl goes up in smoke!!

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

The TC-W3 Certification Tests use NMMA XPA-3259 reference oil and the NMMA 93738 reference oil, depending on which procedure is done.

I can assure you that Yamalube was used as a reference oil. Chevron and other brands were also used as reference. Reference oils are evaluated and given alpha-numerical designations, like the ones you have provided. The NMMA and testing facilities do not list reference oils by name-brand.<br /><br />It is well known in the testing industry that Yamalube has been used as a reference oil. In fact Yamaha uses that fact to market their Yamalube.<br /><br />By Yamaha:<br /><br />”Naturally, any outboard oil should be TC-W3 approved. Yamalube oils are so good they have actually been used as the test oil for many of the TC-W3 ratings! That means that all other TC-W3 oils had to measure up to our high standards.” <br /><br /> http://www.yamaha-motor.com/accessories/apscitemdetail/3/121/4039/All/1/detail.aspx <br /><br />Yamaha realizes other brand TC-W3 oils meet or exceed their own oil, since theirs is used as a reference. This is why their factory tech supports using other TC-W3 oils as mentioned in member BillP’s post. <br /><br /><br />

Yamaha 2M outboard oil is not the reference oil as it does not score the pistons (up to 15% is allowed with the reference oil) and it contains a large percentage of PIB, which is not in the NMMA reference oils.

I am not aware that polyisobutylene (PIB) content is a defining factor for a reference oil. It would be appreciated if you would share any information you have concerning polyisobutylene limits of reference oils. I don’t think I have seen that.<br /><br />If I understand you correctly concerning the 15% piston scuffing, you are referring to the TC-W3 Mercury 15 HP 100:1 detergency test. If I recall, that particular test does allow a 15% piston scuffing limit for the candidate oil, but it does not involve a reference oil in any way. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding your statement.

 

[BillP]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

Per a note I received from the NMMA...<br /><br />After every 5 candidate tests a test engine is “referenced” to assure that it is still producing results within the tolerances required by the specification. <br /><br />Thomas J. Marhevko<br />VP, Engineering Standards<br />Phone 1-312-946-6213<br />Fax 1-312-946-0388<br />www.nmma.org

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

OilDoc,<br />Tom Marhevco, mentioned in BillP's post, can be contacted and will answer any question on the NMMA reference oils that you may have.<br /><br />He is a nice guy and very helpful.

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

Thank you member seahorse. Actually I was hoping you could better explain your comments about polyisobutylene in relation to reference oils. Possibly share your information so we can discuss further. <br /><br />I was also hoping you could better explain your statement that reference oils are allowed 15% scuffing. <br /><br />I appreciate a discussion with someone who is somewhat familiar with outboard oil testing, although much of what you have posted does not seem to make sense. I am surprised you did not know that Yamalube was used as a reference oil.<br /><br />Our test facility worked closely with the NMMA and I have no questions for them at this time. Thank you.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Oil thread went "POOF"

OilDoc,<br /><br />It was years ago, but I was involved with the first OMC oil tests and the initial BIA oil specs, prior to NMMA. I just try to keep informed as the changes happen and try to help with misinformation that many times gets posted. You know what I mean.<br /><br />PIB's are used in Yamaha 2M and the FICHT Ram (XD-50) in relatively large amounts. Merc and Pennzoil syn-blend use smaller amouts of it. One thing I found out over the years, the manufactures are very helpful and explain a lot about their oils. On the other hand, the oil companies are "close-lipped" and often say no comment or "ours exceeds the specs", but no specifics.<br /><br />Like I mentioned earlier, Tom is a great guy and it's best to contact him by email. He is very busy and travels a lot, so be patient waiting for a reply. Be sure to mention your credentials.<br /><br />I'll be on the road for a few weeks, so may not be able to reply for a while.