OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have happ

Joined
May 15, 2003
Messages
9
Hi, <br /><br />My Engine and control box are doing some weird things at the moment.<br /><br />It has become increasingly rare to get the boat into gear straight away. Sometimes it wont engage at all and the motor runs in whatever gear it was last in.<br /><br />When I take the cover off the actual selector seems to be working. Its an old Johnson motor and has a metal plate with grooves in it, and each time you move the shifter at the control box end, a small finger-like rod moves up and down between the grooves, and that is how it works. A VERY bad drawing is at the below link (you will need to cut and paste the link into your browser)<br /><br /> http://www.ontheweekend.com.au/mainpages/gear_pic_1.gif <br /><br />And heres another weird thing, every now and then the motor goes clunk/bang, kinda like the lower leg hit a small branch in the water, but its not hitting anything.<br /><br />Also, a couple of times now the motor has smashed into neutral at top speed, resulting in people going overboard, the leg swinging out of the water and the engine revving well into the beyond red zone! VERY scary combination at night or in a tense situation.<br /><br />Any suggestions? I am thinking there is some sort of about-to-be-fatal-and-kill-everyone problem with the lower part of the leg?<br /><br />Any help would be greatly appreciated, I am taking the boat out tonight in what is pretty intense weather?<br /><br />Many thanks<br />Rob
 

rudeafrican

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
225
Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Hi Rod,<br /><br />Sounds to me like it could be your clutch dog that needs replacement. Do a search on this site for clutch dog to get some further info.<br /><br />Good luck.
 
Joined
May 15, 2003
Messages
9
Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

thanks, I will do that now, even though I have no idea what the h-ll a clutch dog is!
 

OBJ

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 27, 2002
Messages
10,161
Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Rob...scary ain't the word for what's happened. Can ya post a model number for the engine? Then we can get ya' some help...Fast!! I would not venture out on the water until all the issues are taken care of.<br /><br />Just a couple questions here....have you tried manually shifting the engine into gear at the motor with the control cables disconnected? What kind of shape are the control cables in and what kind of control are you using...OMC or some generic brand?<br /><br />rudeafrican is correct about the clutch dog. May stay in gear at low end rpms but will kick out and in at high rpms.<br /><br />Keep us posted....Thanks.
 

rwise

Captain
Joined
Jul 5, 2001
Messages
3,205
Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Rob<br />My moter tried to "jump off the boat" once we shut down and limped to the dock. When I got the lower unit open I found 2 half ball bearings in the bottom. Just a tought.<br />Richard
 
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May 15, 2003
Messages
9
Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

The motor seems doesnt go berserk at low rpm, only at top rev's. The motor is an <br />Johnson 40HP RDS 26 S Super Quiet Electric Start. <br /><br />When the motor is idling at low revs, there is still the odd little clunk, that for all the world feels like the leg hitting something small in the water, and it skips a rev or two, but other than that it runs fine.<br /><br />I have tried changing the gears manually by either pushing the selector rod into the appropriate groove by hand, with the cover off, or by manually pulling the cable near to the motor cover. Seems to work ok at times, other times it makes no difference at all, so I am not sure that it is the problem<br /><br />I have also been told that you should not ..ease... the gears into place, you should pretty much ram them in using appropriate force, otherwise you start to round off the gears in the lower leg?<br /><br />Any thoughts?
 

Joe Reeves

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Joined
Feb 24, 2002
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13,262
Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Your engine is a 1964 40hp Johnson. Although your drawing is fine, with my years of experience, I have no idea what it indicates. It would help if you would also describe the control box you're using.<br /><br />However, regardless of what engine you have, you are describing a manual shift engine that is jumping out of gear, and at times jumping back into gear due to pressure being steadily applied to the shift cable.<br /><br />This type problem is due to the shifter clutch dog and the forward gear lobes being worn, and in your case causes a extremely dangerous situation whereas someone is going to be maimed or killed. To continue to use that engine in its present condition is, to put it mildly, not the wisest thing to do.<br /><br />The above lobe wear can be caused by loose, sloppy linkage, improperly adjusted linkages or cables, or improper shifting by the operator. See the lengthly explanation below.<br /><br />(Jumping Out Of Gear - Manual Type)<br /> <br />This pertains to lower units on all OMC manual shift outboard engines, or any OMC engine with lower units defined as a Shift Assist or a Hydro Electric Shift unit which incorporates a "Shifter Clutch Dog".<br /> <br />Within the lower unit, splined to the prop shaft is what is most often referred to as a clutch dog, hereafter simply called dog. The dog has at least two lobes protruding from it on both ends, facing both forward and reverse gear. The forward and reverse gears also have lobes built into them near their center area. When the engine is running, in neutral, the gears are spinning constantly via the driveshaft being connected directly to the powerhead crankshaft, but the propeller does not turn due to the fact that the dog is centered between the two gears, and the dog lobes are not touching either of the gear lobes.<br /> <br />When the unit is put into either gear, shift linkages force the dog (and its lobes of course) to engage the lobes of the the gear. The lobes of the spinning gear grab the lobes of the dog, and since the dog is splined to the prop shaft, the propeller turns.<br /><br />The lobes of the dog and gears are percisely machined, most with right angled edges that could be installed in either direction, and some with angles slightly varied that must be installed in one direction only (one end only must face the propeller). Dogs that can be installed in one direction only, if reversed, even if the dog and both gears were new.... would jump out of gear almost immediately. Keep in mind that the lobes are percisely machined with sharp angles!<br /> <br />Due to improper adjustment or worn shift linkages, but usually due to improper slow shifting, those percisely machined sharp edges of the lobes become slightly rounded. Now, with those lobes rounded, as the rpms increase, the pressure of the gear lobes upon the dog lobes increases to a point whereas they are forced apart (jumping out of gear), and due (usually) to the shift cable keeping tension on the engines shift linkages..... the unit is forced back into gear giving one the sensation that the engine has hit something, and the cycle continues.<br /> <br />Some boaters have the mistaken belief that shifting slowly is taking it easy on all of the shifting components..... Wrong! Shifting slowly allows those percisely machined sharp edges of the dog and gears to click, clank, bang, slam against each other many times before they are finally forced into each other..... and this is what rounds those edges off! The proper way to shift is to snap the unit into gear as quickly as possible.
 

Lark40

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 29, 2001
Messages
793
Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Joe - Your last paragraph is great.<br /><br />It should have been stamped on a big metal plate on the shift controls of every clutch dog unit ever made. <br /><br />Wish it could be "pinned" on this site in some kind of a FAQ or "engine basics" area.
 

Chinewalker

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Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
8,902
Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

I think the description of the motor coming up out of the water when running leads me to beleive you've got bigger issues than a bad clutch dog - plus the metal you found. I think something has broken in your lower unit - take it apart and see. You can't use it as is, so disassmbling it isn't going to make your problem worse... Let us know what you find...<br />- Scott
 
Joined
May 15, 2003
Messages
9
Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

Re: OLD Johnson Super Quiet and Control Box Problem, VERY dangerous things have

After all the above posts telling me how intensely stupid I would be if I took the boat out, I took the boat out that very night.<br /><br />Put it in at the ramp, and due to extremely strong winds we were pushed about 20 meters to the side while putting the prop down, starting it up etc etc..<br /><br />While doing this we had drifted over the dreaded rock bar, and immediately upon starting there were four or five large banks or clunks, then the motor started revving like a mad man.<br /><br />After the 15 minutes paddle back (thats how strong the winds were) we pulled it up to find the metal sleeve that is part of the prop where you push the drive rod in, smashed and broken, with the split pin hanging on by a whisker.<br /><br />Stupidity and not taking good advice = me<br /><br />I think I should go outside and give myself an uppercut now.<br /><br />Post note, while pulling the cover off discovered the gears looked like they were not engaging because of poorly adjusted linkage, still dont know what was wrong with the motor jumping out like that, I am considering getting rid of the POS and getting a new motor.<br /><br />Any takers for a dangerous, old, worn out, ready to explode Johnson? <br /><br />(grin)
 
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