OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

[jomamma1]

I've started converting my obsolete spitfire ignition. 1990 Reinell 215C w/350 King Cobra.(cone clutch) I purchased a electronic kit from AAAMARINEPARTS.com the 8051 kit. Distributor, wires and coil. I rewired using the schematic in my seloc manual. my main question is, Do I need an ESA and overstroke switch installed? I only have the shift interuptor switch as the Spitfire module performed the ESA and overstoke function. I have wired it so the interuptor switch will ground the coil as the shift is performed, does anyone know if this will work? I'm a little worried I my damage the dist. electronics. if not, as long as my shift cable is adjusted properly, it should work nicely. I have not pulled it out of the garage yet to test fire her up, if anyone has some input, I would be glad to hear it. It seems all posts on this matter, never followed up with their outcome. Joe

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

Hi Joe,

I have been thinking about how I would do this mod.

When you say 350 King Cobra, you're talking about the 454 model?

The Cone clutch models didn't use the ESA like the previous models. The ESA seemed to "pulse" the ignition on my 460 and not just simply interrupt the ignition. This allowed the momentary reduction in torque necessary to separate the clutch dogs with minimal pressure on the shift cable.

The cone clutch models do not require anywhere near as much "pressure" to get them out of gear. (the Mercury Bravos don't even use an ignition interrupt)


If yours is truly a 1990 model, it's probably one of the very first "King" Cobra cone clutch models.

If there were cone clutch Cobras that did not use the Spitfire (electronic) ignition system, you might have a look at a service manual that covers those models so you can examine the schematic diagram.


Timing is everything The pressure (to go to neutral) on the shift cable must be at it's maximum when the ignition is pulsed/interrupted for it to work properly but it shouldn't take very much pressure to get it out of gear.

About a year ago a local iBoats member (username "BlowHo" ) removed the Spitfire system from his 1990 OMC 460 King Cobra. Since he couldn't buy any Spitfire components for his he removed it all and bought the distributor from my (removed) 1987 OMC 460.

He then connected it all up after completely rebuilding the 460 and got it running pretty good. He then quickly sold it!! You could do a search of his posts (about 100 posts) he may have mentioned what he did. You could also send him a personal message and he might have more info. I don't know how often he checks in here now.....He had a REALLY bad taste from that OMC....I don't know if he even bought another boat yet so he might not be lurking around here much...

Another option since that drive is really near the start of the Volvo Penta/OMC collaboration, would be go to a Volvo dealer. They may have info on what to do with the ignition.


Other stuff, Since you're going to an aftermarket ignition system, does it still use the knock sensor? If not you must ensure that you time the engine at a more retarded setting since a computer will not retard when detonation occurs. This will probably cause a fairly significant reduction in HP. My 460 had a setting for 87 octane and a more advanced timing for higher octane fuel. If you allow the engine to detonate it won't last long...


I went in a different direction.....but I think yours is "doable"

Good luck.



Rick

 

[rodbolt]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

first properly ID your drive, easiest way I know is to look at the shift cable entry. if it enters the bell housing low on the stbd side its a dog clucth king cobra, if it enters about midway up the bellhousing on the port side its a cone clutch king, I dont think the cone clutch was still in production in 1990 but it could have been.
was a long time ago .
if you have a dog clutch cobra unit some type of shift interrupt is mandatory. you can use the ESA or wire it like a merc. dont know what conversion kit you used but the delco EST is by far the best conversion but I dont think it was ever availible on the 460 ford engines.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

You mean DOG-Clutch don't you?

I thought the 1990s were all "dogs" also (well ALL the OMCs were dogs right?) .

I had a look at Doug Russells parts site and if you look at the 1990 model year for the 454 and 460 King Cobra, the pictures clearly depict the "hump" in the upper drive housing. On the smaller engines (5.8 and lower) they depict the "dogs"

So it appears that the 1990 "King" was the start of the cone clutch that began to replace the earlier drives and completely replaced them later...

I dont think the cone clutch was still in production in 1990 but it could have been.
was a long time ago .

 

[rodbolt]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

dunno, the "KING COBRA" was decaled in both cone and dog configuration. the dog style requires a shift interrupt(ESA) and the cone did not.
thats why rather than looking at pictures and fairytales he has to positivly ID the drive not just whats on a decal.
PS: anyone can buy decals, they look cool to some folks.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

It sounds a King-Cone though....

They started using the first cones on the 90 454 & 460's with the Spitfire.

You're right though....he's got to positively identify it.......I'm sure glad I don't have to fool with that stuff anymore!!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

me too, I refuse to work on junk or stuff that has no factory support.
no money or future in it.

 

[Coors]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

Oh, just let us tyro's try to figure it out.
bad bad boys
lol

 

[jomamma1]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

I'm not used to getting response so quickly, Yes I do have the King Cobra w/cone clutch matched with a 350 GM. The hump on the top of the upper gear housing is how I am identifing it. I did not know about the cable difference between the cone and dog clutch. My cable enters the outdrive on the port side. This combination must have been as rare as the Spitfire itself. I agree with the comment about the lack of support and access to parts, but, I truely have been amazed at the durability of this outdrive. I've owned this boat for the past 10 yrs and would not change anything about it except for the spitfire system. To be honest with you all, 10 years of almost flawless performance from this spitfire EEM system. If not for the lack of replacement parts and mechanics experienced working on this system, I may have replaced in kind.
Rick, funny, I did track down "blowho" and had a couple good conversations with him, Great you could help a local guy out! Hes from Kent and I'm from West Seattle.

Rodbolt, you mentioned that the cone clutch did not need a shift interrupt but all my research shows that the Spitfire module performed the functions of the ESA but where triggered by a single interrupt switch mounted on the shift bracket(no overstroke switch) So in my application I assume I need the existing interupt switch. My Seloc manual shows multiple wiring schematics for different setups. I have rewired mine following the schematic for a GMC 5.7 litre LE powerplant equip with a Standard distributor minus the ESA module and my new distributor has 2 wires, 1 going to each side of the coil. I was going to try using like this, because like you said the cone clutch shift so much easier than the dog. If this setup does not allow smooth shifting then I'm ready to install a ESA module.

Another question. I have read some info requiring the bypassing of the resistor wire when converting to an electronic ignition from a points setup to supply constant 12v to the coil. Do you think this would apply to my conversion from the spitfire? It is already a electronic system?

Thanks for all your input, If any of you or someone you know has done this conversion please keep the info coming. Joe

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

Ok,

I'm guessing by 350 GM you mean a 350 CU-IN small block engine?

Or is it a 350 (crankshaft HP) 454?

It's hard to know what you have. Using the Doug Russell online parts catalog, they show the 1990 5.7L engine mated to a dog clutch drive. In 1990 it appears that they only used the cone clutch drive with the 2 big block engines (460/454).....


You may have a 1991 or newer if it's a 5.7L engine


This of course means NOTHING! Using an online after market parts catalog is not a very good way to determine what parts went where!

Try going to : http://epc.brp.com/

that's the current BRP/OMC catalogs. You may be able to find more info if you have actual model numbers.

It's pretty hard to know what has been modified on that boat in the years before you got it unless the previous or original owner told you what they did.


It's good you were able to talk to Bill. He's probably as good a source for info as any of us since his experience is pretty recent.

 

[Boatin Bob]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

Sounds like you've confirmed the drive is a Cone using the hump and the cable are both good ways but like the others I'm sure 1990 was only the 454/460 for the cone clutch. That was a transistion year and they dropped the 460 in 1991 and stayed witht the 454. If you could find/post the engine and drive model (not serial) numbers you may find you have a 1991 power plant even if the boat is a 1990. Good to know especially when looking for parts.

 

[jomamma1]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

HT, I have a 350 cubic inch displacement - 260hp GM(Genral Motors) powerplant matched with a KING COBRA outdrive with the hump on the top of the upper gear housing and the shift cable entering the rear housing on the portside.

Boatin Bob, it may be possible that I have a 1991 outdrive and powerplant but the parts breakdown on Doug Russell show the same parts for the 1990 and 1991 454. believe me I know the difference between the 350 and the 454. From the visual appearance of my outdrive, I have the King Cobra with the cone clutch and lets just say this is the case for now.

I'm trying to replace my electronic spitfire EEM ignition system with a new electronic distributor ignition system. my existing system consists of the exact componets shown for the 1990 and newer 454/460 King Cobras with the spitfire ignition on the DougRussell.com parts breakdown. Looking at the breakdown for the shift interruptor and bracket, you will notice that there is no ESA module or overstroke switch, only a shift interruptor switch. this is exactly how my Cobra is setup. I am hoping someone knows if it is possible to use the shift interruptor switch to ground the new coil during shifting without damaging the new electronic componets?
Sorry for the confusion. JG

 

[pra100]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

I did this conversion on My 4.3 Cobra several years ago.My spitfire system had been dying for several years.The way I did it was.I bought a standard points type dist.off of Ebay.Then I bought a Pertronix Egnitor 2,not the model one.Then I bought 8mm stranded plug wires.I used a axcel brand super coil,the hug yellow one.I used a 30 amp bosch relay to switch the resistor in and out for starting.Remove the spitfire unit and coil pack off of plate at back of engine.There is a dummie dist. in hole at back of engine to turn oil pump.I removed it.Set engine at top dead center,droped in dist.with rotor pointing to number one plug.Then installed coil,relay,and wires.I wired up the shift switch just like mercury did on theirs to short dist. At first being a electronic tech I built my own esa unit ,which I did a write up about on another board,which I will not get into now.I blew the ic chip I was using in my esa version,so therefore that is why I just wired it up to switch the coil to ground like Merc.It has work great for 2 hard seasons.This motor fires hot or cold just by turn key and it starts right then,Shift is soooo smooth,smother then it ever was with spitfire ignition.I started of setting timing like it should be for a standard ignition,then move it a little to go it where I wanted it.I have no pinging at all.I believe with this setup for me it runs better then it ever did with the spitfire.Just a very responsive engine.
If I can give more detail just ask.I have some pictures of it on photo bucket I could post if needed.

 

[jomamma1]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

)))

 

[jomamma1]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

pra100, thanks for the input, This is exactly how I have wired my new setup except for the 30 amp relay. Can you give more info on this?. I cant wait to get it out of the garage and test things out!!! The real test will be on the water. LETS GO BOATING!!!! Joe

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

I am assuming that you used a standard points type MARINE dist...

Joe,

You might also consider getting either a Mallory or an MSD http://www.msdignition.com/mari_8.htm

I'm pretty sure that MSD has instructions for connecting an interruption circuit.


What ever you do, please don't just put an automotive distributor on it. None of us here wants to hear about you on KOMO or KIRO when it blows up!

I bought a standard points type dist.off of Ebay.

 

[jomamma1]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

HT, I decided to purchase a marine distributor, coil and plug wires from AAAMARINEPARTS.com its the 8051 kit. designed for a marine application. The reason I decided to purchase thru them was that he was local(Tacoma).Joe

 

[pra100]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

Joe after saying I used a relay to switch resistor,it had been so long ago I went out to garage and looked again.I used the relay in the esa circuit I built,which is not in use now.I just let the starter relay control the resistor switching.The dist. I used was a original OMC points dist,that I put the electronic ignition in.One other thing on using the esa switch to short the coil.You may have to do a little adjusting to get it to stall just right,I adjusted the throw on the arm.Also try to keep your idle rpms low also.I have mine set at about 600 to 700.The only other problem I had was mine has a Holly 4bb, carb.and there was not much clearance between the back bowl and the dist.

 

[jomamma1]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

Thanks again Pra100, I'm sure you ment to say interupter switch not esa switch, But understand I will need to adjust cable just right and keep idle low. My 5.7 L also has a 4 barrel, but there is plenty of room for my distributor.
Also I posted a reply to your loose shifter. You must have somehow missed the groove on the spline shaft when tighening your set scew. When the set screw is tight in the groove, it is impossible for the shifter to slide in or out. Take a real good look! its pretty close quarters. Joe

 

[jomamma1]

Re: OMC Spitfire ignition conversion

Getting ready to pull the boat out of thr garage and test fire with new ignition sytem installed. AAMARINE PARTS.COM called to inform me that they made a mistake and my new system would need a Black box controler to get fire from my new high voltage coil. They have sent it to me at no charge and I should recieve it in the mail today. I will post my results this weekend. Wish me luck!