Ongoing Issue

[chads15]

Hello... I have a 2002 Merc Alfa 1 4.3 190 In a Maxum 1800. Runs Great and here is the big "BUT", Last year it was in the shop several times for a Dieselling issue that they said they fixed. Well it still does it and I know its a big problem. Or can be.... Its going back to the dealer and I need some ammo hopefully from all of you experts out there.. I did discover something else. And I need to know if it could be related? I was just feeling around the engine one day and discoverd the starboard Riser/manifold is allmost untouchable (HOT) compared to the port Riser/manifold witch is nice and Cold.. now in my mind they should be the same temp right? Now when it does this Dieselling thing it does it from a moderate load, I come off of plane and shut it off to pick up someone sking or tubing. Sometimes if I give it a rev in nutral before I turn it off it wont do it. I know its abit long winded but sometimes it helps... Thanks in advance...

 

[iwldntli2u]

Re: Ongoing Issue

Do not know if this will help but, i have the same problem. If i leave the motor to idle for a few second before i shut down the problem is gone. Instead of spending the time to mess with a complicated problem, just let it idle for a few seconds before you shut it down. Just my 1 1/2 cents.

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: Ongoing Issue

If you have been running an engine hard and quickly stop, the cooling water is reduced and the temp spikes. If you kill the engine, the cooling water stops and the temp really spikes. As Ski Rob found out, if you idle the engine for a minute, it gives the water some time to remove heat from from the block. What you are describing is completely normal. Next time you are out, run the boat at a higher speed and pay attention to the temp. Reduce the speed to idle and watch the temp go up, then back down. Don't shut the engine off till the temp goes back down to reduce the possibility of dieseling and sucking water back up thru the exhaust.

 

[Mikedg]

Re: Ongoing Issue

The exhaust riser should never get hot. Regardless of running conditions you should be able to put your hand on them. The fact that you stated one was hot and the other wasn't indicates that you have a problem. Excessive heat in the riser can cause the engine to run hot, a real potential problem. Dieseling is just the beginning. Running it like this could lead to major failure. Have it checked out as soon as you can.

 

[dick]

Re: Ongoing Issue

Another thing is boat manufactures cram the engines in smaller and smaller areas so people can bring more beer with them. The biggest problem then becomes heat (like Ken said)One more thing will help is that you run the blower when the engine is running this helps the air circulate and should help.

 

[FatBack]

Re: Ongoing Issue

What kind of cooling system do you have? Open or closed? Each kind of system will generate a different cause for one riser being hotter than the other.

 

[chads15]

Re: Ongoing Issue

Thanks alot guys for the great tips. I do However run the blower just about all the time.. Kinda a good bad habbit. I just sometimes forget to turn it off sometimes. This Engine has a open cooling system. So I am thinking that one Hot riser and one cold riser could be a good place to start? The boat only has 45 hours on it and the waranty runs out in July. So this is something I need to be getting fixed soon. And again thanks so much. I could have had a huge problem and not known it.

 

[magster65]

Re: Ongoing Issue

Like Mike says, your exhaust manifold should never get that hot. If one side is hot and not the other it could be some sort of blockage or maybe a lean condition on one or more of those cylinders.

 

[boatingfool]

Re: Ongoing Issue

Hey Chad,<br />I dont know the answer to your problem but I do have a thought on your warranty running out.<br /><br />If it is an ongoing problem that the dealer is aware of the problem should still be covered under the warranty after it expires.<br /><br />Any other conditions that existed before the warranty are not covered once it expires.Unless the dealer has been working on them with no success.<br /><br />Basicaly the work on your problem started while still under warranty and is covered until the problem is fixed.

 

[horndog]

Re: Ongoing Issue

if its still under warranty, why have you worry about it, send it to the dealer and have them fix it while it is still FREE!

 

[Mufasa]

Re: Ongoing Issue

Chads15,<br /><br /> This has been a very common problem ever since they had to raise the engine temprature to meet emmission standards. The carburated motors have been a real challenge. This is what causes the problem: High engine & engine compartment tempratures, Incorrect timing, Wrong spark plugs, poor fuel quality ie. winter blends with low read vapor pressure, idle speed too high.<br /><br />I suggest you keep running the blower, let the motor settle down and idle at least 30 seconds, buy higher octane fuel and locate a better mechanic. This problem can be fixed. If all else fails install a cooler thermastat.<br /><br />I think your hot riser is a separate problem. Doesn't this motor have the new vortec heads and one piece exhaust manifolds??

 

[FatBack]

Re: Ongoing Issue

What's low read vapor pressure? I've never heard of that on a 4 cylce engine.

 

[chads15]

Re: Ongoing Issue

Again thanks alot to all of you that have replyed to my question. Lots of good content. <br /><br />Master Tech, I do believe that it is a vortec with 1 piece risers. whatever is on a 2002 Mercruser. As far as what all has been done to it is they said they have "Adjusted the carb to a more lean setting and adjusted timming" to help correct the dieselling problem. (still not fixed) But makes perfect sence to let her settle down abit befor I shut it down. Now if the one hot riser and the other cold was an issue before all this adjusting was done I wish I had checked.. but who would know. Its just something I descovered by pure accident. Its new and one shouldnt have too, you would think? I just dont want to damage it. I can never thank you all enough for the great advice.

 

[Mufasa]

Re: Ongoing Issue

Reed Vapor Pressure (RVP) is the fuels ability to burn at lower tempratures which is needed for winter start-up. When this is combined with summer temps and high engine load the "run-on" or "dieseling" occurs. Add to this a marginal water pump and elevated motor temp and you have major pre-ignition/detonation. The leaning out of the idle will only make it worse, it should have been richened. That motor also requires a timing shunt to lock it in to base timing mode, if they did that correctly. The carb is also to be adjusted with the timing locked out as the control module will modify timing while you are trying to adjust it. Now that you are armed with all this info go back and talk to your dealer about making it right.<br /><br />As to the exhaust manifold temp. In neutral raise the rpm's to about 1,200 and perform the same test as you did before. With a worn pump at idle speeds you may not be pumping enough water volume.

 

[chads15]

Re: Ongoing Issue

Well I know its been about a year on this topic. and I wanted to let you all know I didnt let it slide by. I have filed a Lawsuit against the peeps that built the engine and the boat. The Boat was plagued with problems as well. My last attempt # 10 on the run on condition was that "it was just the way it was soposed to be." Was accually said by the service manager. and "we will no longer service your boat" I truly do not like what I had to do next. But its a sad world when you have to sue someone to get satisfation.

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: Ongoing Issue

And unless you have an expert that can put a finger on the problem and say that it was the builder's fault, and that person or persons has corrected the problem, you've just spent alot of money for naught and since you will now be tagged as lawsuit happy, no one will be available to work on your boat in the future at any of the repair centers in your area.

 

[chads15]

Re: Ongoing Issue

And this has allready been done. Its out of my hands. it has been to several dealerships and no one can correct it. Thats how the lemon law works. and this is what it is for. I did not pay X amout of money to have something defective. Like I said. I didnt like doing it. But what would you do? Put yourself in my shoes. How would you feel about buying a 20K boat or car and something be wrong with it? and no one could fix it. But it is the right thing to do.

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: Ongoing Issue

Chad15,<br />I hope you get an equitable settlement.And I am sorry for your boating experience.It upsets me when things like this happen.Usually it boils down to communication problems.<br />Many times I find myself with a customer,talking in circles.I don't understand him,and he is not mechanical,so he doesn't understand me.<br />That's when I suggest we just talk about it for awhile.Next thing...we start to understand the terms we each use.Then we can work towards the solution.<br />There were 'run on' problems with your motor,and several things to try to fix them.And sometimes it was boat design that caused it.Why no one picked up on the hot exhaust on one side we'll never know.<br />It just makes me feel bad to see someone go thru so much,trying to have fun.<br />DHP

 

[cjflanagan]

Re: Ongoing Issue

Chads15: My last attempt # 10 on the run on condition was that "it was just the way it was supposed to be."

Captain Ken: ... and since you will now be tagged as lawsuit happy, no one will be available to work on your boat in the future at any of the repair centers in your area.<br />

What a bunch of crap captain ken! How is someone who tried 10 times, consulted this forum for advice, and worked with the dealer in good faith lawsuit happy? Chads15's money is still as good as anyone else's. What, was he black-balled from the boating community because his boat was a lemon and he had to resort to the justice system to find satisfaction?

 

[chads15]

Re: Ongoing Issue

My Boating experence has and will never be tarnished. I enjoy it so much. I just dont enjoy poor customer service. I wish someone had taken the time to let me explain my Issues with the boat. But it got blown so far out of control so quickly. Legal action was my only way out. I called mercury and explained my problem. and They didnt want to have anything to do with it. They were pointing the finger @ the Boat Manufacturer. and Maxum was pointing @ the dealer then the dealer was pointing @ me. I take it to another dealer and they cant fix it. all they say is "Try different gas. Try this try that." I have a boat with more wrong with it @ 2 years old then my old one @ 9 years old. and it had a force 150 on it. my boat now is hard to start. idels like crap. and runs on for up to 15 to 20 seconds @ a time after you turn the key off. makes all kinds of racket when the boat is on the trailer and going up the ramp. Im sure its not good on the water pump. but what am I to do. (Sorry Mr., My boat wont shut off. I cant take it out of the water yet) I have 3 friends that have the same engine. +\- 2 years and they have never seen the problems I have had. and this is just the engine! the inside of the boat: carpet peeling from the floor. all the tears in the seats that they "patched" that are now comming appart. the Ski storage cover that caved in when I steped on it. and this is major stuff people! But I will keep you all posted. but for now. I will enjoy what I can of this boat. Im not after a settlement of some ungodly ammout. I just want out of it what I have in it. Use that money for a down payment on another. So far Glastron has my Eye for a 195 SX. but one step @ a time!