Opinions needed for a first rebuild

[LangDog]

First of all, Hello! this is only my 2nd post and what a great site this is! After a few weeks of reading threads it is quite apparent that I have alot in common with the gear-heads and fix-er-uppers on here. As a physics teacher I have some electronics experience as well as a sound, "basic" , understanding of mechanics and engines. I have torn down and fixed a couple of lawn mower engines and a weed eater engine but I have never rebuilt a frozen engine.

After finding this site, I decided that my first rebuild would be a low horsepower, vintage outboard. I love vintage machinery and these engines aren't too big for me to move around. I'm not old, but I do use a wheelchair so weight is an issue.

So, finally to my questions. If I buy something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Vintage-Old-Evinrude-Outboard-Boat-Motor-4678-04229-NR-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem33609597f0QQitemZ220663748592QQptZBoatQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear#ht_6305wt_1165

How difficult would it be to find rings if some heavy honing was needed? What brands are the easiest to find gaskets for? For my first rebuild I'm not interested in spending too much time tracking down parts so I want some opinions on what brands and years to stay within.

Of course I already know that the later the year, the easier it is to find parts. But I REALLY want to stick to the 60's latest, so please give opinions with that in mind.

Next... prices? If I was a garage sale and saw that engine in the link, as it sits, for $50 I would think it would be worth it..heck..beer , wings, and tip are $25. But actually I am quite ignorant on what is reasonable for low HP, vintage outboards so examples, links, opinions will be much appreciated.

I hope this wasn't too long winded. Lets the berating begin!!! hahahah

 

[ezeke]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

You might want to check prices on powerhead rebuild kits, which will also give you an idea of what is available. In many cases it is easier and less expensive to purchase a kit than to buy individual parts. Bill Kelly is one supplier that is well recommended: http://www.maxrules.com/fixphead.html

It is also important to have a factory service manual and a parts manual on hand for whatever model you want to rebuild: http://www.outboardbooks.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.main

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

A "stuck" engine is not a good choice. One that turns over with decent compression, but doesn't run can be had for about the same money, and is more likely to become a runner without major investment in parts and labor. A non-runner should almost never go for more than 50 to $75. You'd be much better off going to a swap meet than buying thru Ebay. Consider joining AOMCI. My cousin's a member and goes to swap meets all the time and finds all kinds of treasures (I think he's up to 15 to 20 motors (he blames me for getting him started when I gave him a 1938 Evinrude Elto Sportsman several years ago). It's now fully restored and running on the back of a restored 14' PenYan Car Topper from the late 40's.

BTW, most important parts (pistons, rings, etc. are still available if you meet the right people). Ezeke's comments are also very good. For all the old Johnson Evinrude Elto Gale family of motors, outboardbooks.com can provide shop manuals, parts list and owners manuals back to the year of the flood.

 

[BigB9000]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

You would be better off buying a running engine. They are cheaper.
First, outboards are not worth more than gold, no matter what the seller thinks.

That engine is a 1937 4.3 hp
It will move a boat, but very slowly. a 1970's 4hp will FLY past that thing,

I would look for an engine that can actually push a boat.

Also, I like things from 68+
Mainly because I can use shop2.evinrude.com for parts.

here is my 1966 6hp
http://www.bigb9k.com/brp/6603e/

Im working on another one, built from parts on ebay.

 

[LangDog]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

Interesting... I'm not concerned as to what kind of boat 2,3, or 4 hp motor will push. I'm interested in the process, not the engines usefulness or practicality when finished. Having helped rebuild a vw engine, i can't imagine that a single cylinder outboard head could be that hard to get back into shape.

So maybe I should ask the question a different way. If you had to rebuild an old single cylinder outboard, and the ring was rusted to the cylinder wall, which one would you pick and why?

As to my original post...is that motor way overpriced? I'm trying to get a feel for what experienced rebuilders would pay for something similar. I can fabricate smallish, solid parts..just not complicated or large caste parts.

I will DEF check out that site for antique outboards, but i would rather pay for shipping than travel to different swap meets since i have issues with rolling in the dirt

 

[BigB9000]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

just put an add on craigslist

"wanted: small outboard" Price, $50

You'll probably get a few responses.
Find one you like, and buy it.

If it turns out you hate it, sell its parts on ebay, and get yourself another motor.

You'll have a garage full in no time

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

The motor you pointed to in your initial post isn't yet priced, as it's an auction item. More than 35 to$50 is too much in my opinion, when you can buy something which turns over and has compression AND is more populous for very little more. There are not a whole lot of that specific motor out there, which makes finding donor motors (a very common way to get parts for antique motors) much harder. AOMCI has a website with free classifieds which may be a better place than Ebay to begin looking. The people there tend to be honest, which is rare these days. I have dealt with a guy from AOMCI, who will remain nameless lest he be abused, who has sent me stuff and doesn't want payment until I'm sure the parts fits and works. What a way to do business!

If I were looking for a not too difficult first motor, the Evinrude Elto Pal from the late 30's wouldn't be a bad subject. There are other more recent motors, such as the Zephyr series, made from the late 30's and throughout the forties, but even perfectly restored, can be a challenge to get running. In any case, do some homework before just buying anything old, unless you enjoy frustration.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

I'll second the opinion to avoid ebay for outboard engines, I've personally had very bad luck there. I've found a few reputable folks on ebay selling engine components (found a great deal on a rebuilt starter for example), but on an engine and lower unit I got shafted. It seems that many of the people selling engines, lower units, and bigger components like that either don't have a clue, are shady, or a combination of the two.

 

[Fry300]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

Wow. I've had great luck on ebay! I found a donor power head which i ripped the pistons/rods out of. Come to find out that powerhead was rebuilt at somepoint with more modern roller bearing wrist pins. Now my 1958 johnson 10 only has one brass bearing! That was lucky though.

 

[LangDog]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

Thanks! The more info the better.

 

[LangDog]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

What about this?

http://jacksonville.craigslist.org/boa/1938931219.html

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

Looks OK. Cosmetic work only seems to be needed. Price is at the top end of what's reasonable.

 

[jmendoza]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

Hey, that engine on fleaBay is an early 4 cylider Zephyr! Only a whopping 5.4 hp, what a power house.

Try Rancho Marine in Rancho Cordova California, I bought a used 1975 evinrude 15HP power head from them and they are pretty good about dissclosing anything they know about, and have reasonable prices. They are near the Sacramento river so most of the stuff is freshwater. Salvage marine yards like this, and fresh water marinas are great sources for engines as they regularly update their fleets and set aside the older engines, sometimes you can get two for one if you haggle.

Find an engine that turns over, is complete, and you have a fighting chance. The real old stuff(pre-war) is a bear to find parts for in my experience.

It costs as much to overhaul a 2-5 hp as it does a 25 hp twin, so might as well get one that is usefull, meaning bigger.

 

[Solittle]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

Your post indicated that you wanted to do your own machine work I think. That may not be a good idea as outboard machine work is not the same as automotive. When you get whatever you end up with you would be better off doing the dissembly/assembly and take the block & pistons to a marine machine guy. He will do the measurements, punch the holes and sell you the proper sized rings and pistons if you need them. Have him also check that the head and block are not warped.

Many years ago I did what you are doing just for the hell of it. I enrolled in a outboard repair course given at night at a vo-tech school. I scrounged an old 35 hp Gale and took it down to the last screw. I got most of the parts I needed from their their junk pile of old motors. When painted it looked like new and ran just as well. I had no need for the motor so sold it and put a wad of cash in my pocket and had fun doing it.

 

[LangDog]

Re: Opinions needed for a first rebuild

Yeah! I didn't even pay attention at first to that motor being 4 cyl...way to much to mess with for a first redo.

i will take the advise given and at least stick to one that turns over, single or twin and stick with jhonnyrude so I can find the manual and parts. When I get a steal on one I'll be back when I'm stuck, thanks!!