Opinions on brakes,please?

[starcraft1982]

What I have.1988 cajun bassboat 18 1/2ft. w/150 mercury.Single axle trailboss trailer.Tow vehicle is a 2000 1500 silverado,reg. cab,4 wheel disc.I dont think my rig exceeds the 3000lb requirement(guessing though).I live in the country and pulling on mild to moderate hills,my truck brakes HAVE gotten pretty hot a couple times.Would surge brakes be sufficient?Is my rig heavy enough to really warrant them.I would like them,but money is tight.Is it expensive to add brakes to a trailer not made for them?Hard to do?Please forgive a newbie to the trailer brake world.I want to be safe towards others and have never pulled a trailer with brakes.All input appreciated.Thank you.

 

[superbenk]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

In my opinion, brakes are almost always a good idea. I put disc surge brakes on my ~3500 lbs boat/trailer last year and found it to be a TREMENDOUS improvement in safety and confidence. FWIW, I bought the Kodiak 10" discs and coupler. The whole package ran me around $500 if I remember correctly.

Prior to the brakes, I was stopping the entire load with my 03 Frontier 4x4 crew cab and in quick stops it was kind of scary. I realized after driving the trailer for a year or so that the legal limit was 3000 lbs before brakes were required, so I decided to put them on both to be legal & safe.

I'm not sure there's a technical cut-off between surge & electric brake effectiveness. I know there's lots of opinions out there about which is better. I think ultimately a surge setup with discs is the most economical & functional setup, but there's times I would like the features electric offers (on-demand braking, better graduated braking, adjustable gain, no clunk from the coupler disengaging, etc.).

You'll need the square flange on your axles with the 4 bolt holes in order to fit either disc or drum brakes.

Here's what I got:

http://www.championtrailers.com/KODIAK DISC BRAKE KITS.html

 

[Lou C]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

Even with a good size tow vehicle such as you have brakes are a good idea, if you ever have to stop fast or someone pulls out in front of you which can happen at any time. I put a simple set of surge drums on my old 94 Load Rite trailer (boat and trailer are probably about 4000 lbs) and it made a huge difference. At the time the disc systems that were out were troublesome so I went with the galvanized drum brakes with aluminum wheel cylinders. It made a big difference and since my boat is moored in the water all summer the trailer only goes in the water a few times a year so the brakes last a long time. The first set I replaced after 5 seasons worth. If I trailered the boat all the time I'd use the Kodiak silver cad discs but the drums worked fine for me. They do not need as much hydraulic line pressure as discs do (drums are self energizing) and they can actually work better than discs with lighter towed loads....

The installation is not difficult as long as the axle has brake flanges. Go to Champion Trailers website and look at the tech support articles, they have a lot of information there. The part that took the longest was snaking the brake line through the trailer frame...

 

[Silver Eagle]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

Easternmarine.com has a nice set of disc brakes, Don't forget to change the coupler to Disc brakes as well.

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

my truck brakes HAVE gotten pretty hot a couple times

First and foremost, there is no reason to get the brakes hot. Even with no brakes on the trailer. Your boat doesn't weigh enough to get them hot.
With all due respect, its your driving habits more than the lack of brakes. Your asking the brakes to do t much.
1: start off the top of the hill slower.
2: use the transmission to help control the speed, get out of overdrive going down hills, maybe even use second gear.
3: slow down sooner when you are stopping. remember you have extra weight.
4: look 5 times further down the road ahead of you to avoid having to hit the brakes hard.
I dont mean to get on your case, but I really get tired of seeing any kind of vehicles in a smoking heap at the bottom of a hill because they lost their brakes. Its 90% driver error.
Do not take this to mean you dont need brakes, All wheels that are on the ground and carry weight need brakes.

Now all that being said, I like electric brakes, and think surge's should be illegal.
You can get electric's on for about $250.00, thats everything new, including new drum/hubs if you dont have them already.

 

[woody619]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

I just redid my trailer braking system (surge) and I'm in no way any kind of expert. And don't know which of the 2 (disc or surge) would be better for you.

I'm not a car guy, but was able to do it. Thanks to the guys here on iboats. But I think you would need in case you went surge (which they sell in complete kits):

Coupler rated for your load
Brake Line
New Axle (If yours wasn't made for brakes) rated for your load
Hub Drums
Bearings, Etc. to fit new axle
Brake Clusters

In addition to Champion Trailers & Eastmarine, i went to Pacific Trailers website too.

 

[109jb]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

The 1500 chevy and gmc trucks of that era had crappy brakes so don't be too hard on the guy. He probably could change his driving habits a bit to help, but that said:

It is never a bad idea to have trailer brakes. If you are strapped for cash, the absolute cheapest way to get brakes is going to be electric drum brakes. If you boat in fresh water they would be fine.

If you boat in any salt water then disk brakes are going to be the choice, either surge, or electric over hydraulic. Personally, I hate surge brakes and have had several trailers with surge brakes over the years. I hate them so much that all of the surge brake trailers I ever had were converted to electric drums. If I had to have disk brakes on a trailer I would go with the electic over hydraulic, but that isn't cheap.

I am actually in the same boat as you because I tow my Sea Ray with my 1999 GMC 1/2 ton van sometimes and on braking you definitely have increased stopping distances and know the boat is there. The vans had crappy brakes too. Next year I plan to add brakes to the boat trailer and will be putting on electric drums. I only boat in fresh water.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

I've never towed a trailer with electric brakes but for sure I can see the advantage performance wise because for one there is no delay with the trailer having to push against the tow vehicle before its brakes engage and for another they aren't on all the time going down hills because it's responding to how the driver is braking the tow vehicle....
But if you are in an areas with few hills, hydraulic surge brakes can work pretty well. They are the simplest system you can use, there is no need for a brake controller, and you can use stainless discs if you need the corrosion resistance in salt water. I would not put any electric brake on a salt water trailer, it's hard enough to keep trailer lights working!

What I did was replace my original set of backing plates the past summer, (wheel cylinders getting sticky) I kept the old ones because the shoes were still good. I am doing to buy a pair of new wheel cylinders and adjusters and install them on the old backing plates. That way if I ever have a problem with the brakes on the trailer now I can just swap those in, its not a hard job, takes about 1/2 hr per side....

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

Now all that being said, I like electric brakes, and think surge's should be illegal.

The last brakes that should be on a boat trailer, especially one that goes in salt water, are electric brakes. Surge brakes are fine but need to be maintained like everything else. They are no different than brakes that are on a car.

 

[Hoggar]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

Here is the article I read before deciding to put Electric Brakes
on my Dual axle Johnson trailer. 4400# total boat/Trailer weight.
It use to push my 3/4 ton Suburban around like it was a VW.
I intend to install a freshwater flush kit this summer.

BoatUS Trailering Club: Electric Brakes

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

Instead of drum brakes, use disc. Way less maintenance than drum be it hydraulic or electric.

 

[109jb]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

Car brakes aren't designed to go underwater, so why would a comparison like this even be valid. In my opinion the consideration is corrosion and any drum brake, whether electric or hydraulic is going to be the worst because of the enclosed drums and the associated hardware that a drum brake has like springs, adjusters, etc. The disc brake doesn't have all this which is why it is preferred in salt water over drums.

I see absolutely no reason to make a comment like:

"The last brakes that should be on a trailer, especially one that goes in salt water, are electric brakes."

Except for boat trailers, the preferred brakes for smaller trailers has been electric for a long long time. The above comment did not specify "boat" trailer and that may have been an accidental omission, and you can make an argument for not using them in salt water. However, I have never seen a compelling reason not to use electric for fresh water boat trailer use.

 

[Subliminal]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

Love the surge discs on my trailer. Behind my Equinox they were a must...behind my Dodge they're just good insurance.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

The magnets are supposedly epoxy sealed but the problem is that where the wire enters the magnet, over time because of vibration, water can enter and there are cases where the magnet fails.

I have had a lot of trailers with electric brakes including a triple axle 5th wheel. I had more problems with magnets on that trailer failing than any surge brake trailer I ever had and that didn't even get dunked in the water.

On my boat trailer, I have Kodiak disc with electric/hydraulic. Best of both worlds as far as I am concerned. You get the reliability of the hydraulic disc brakes and the brake control of electric.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

I see absolutely no reason to make a comment like:

The above comment did not specify "boat" trailer and that may have been an accidental omission, and you can make an argument for not using them in salt water. However, I have never seen a compelling reason not to use electric for fresh water boat trailer use.

I meant boat trailer

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

Both types have their fan's, I have used both, worked on both and I can't say either is right or wrong, brakes are one of the most abused systems on trailers that I have ever seen, but both types have their purpose and I will continue to use either, depending on what is on the trailers I purchase..I have no preference either way and understand, how well they work is always in my hands and is my responsibility.

 

[JasonB]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

I'm a 100% freshwater boater. I was towing about 3600lbs/single axle trailer with a '99 F-150 Supercab with 4 wheel disk. It did ok, but didn't feel as safe as I wanted.. I ended up putting on a set of regular electric drum brakes from Tractor Supply. What a difference. Felt much safer and I could actually stop the boat+truck faster than just the truck. When I decided to swap the old single axle for a tandem, I moved the brakes to the front axle. The tandem added a few lbs to the rig (not 4100lbs total load with fuel) and I'm still happy. Would like to have brakes on both axles, but I'm satisfied with where I am. In the interim we traded the truck for a 2001 Expedition (read- shorter tow vehicle). I wouldn't pull our load with it if I didn't have trailer brakes. The shor wheelbase+softer suspension needs some help making the load feel 100% controlled.

In 7 years, I have had the drums off every couple years to repack the bearings+check things out. No issues so far and no real corrosion or rust to speak of. Biggest issue I have had, my old storage location required me to back the trailer in at a severe angle. Since it was a brake intensive move, the drums would tighten up too much. Easy solution was to unplug the brakes before backing. Problem solved.

While I usually unplug the brakes before backing down the ramp, one advantage of electric brakes is that, unlike surge, electrics will work in reverse. I have a couple ramps we rarely use that are steep or slick. I can leave the brakes plugged in and get some braking assist.

 

[109jb]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

... When I decided to swap the old single axle for a tandem, I moved the brakes to the front axle...

If the trailer is a leaf spring tandem with the equalizers between the front and rear springs, the brakes should be on the rear axle. It has to do with how the equalizer works under braking.

If the trailer has torsion axles it doesn't matter which has the brakes.

 

[Joshua Nichols]

Re: Opinions on brakes,please?

The magnets are supposedly epoxy sealed but the problem is that where the wire enters the magnet, over time because of vibration, water can enter and there are cases where the magnet fails.

I have had a lot of trailers with electric brakes including a triple axle 5th wheel. I had more problems with magnets on that trailer failing than any surge brake trailer I ever had and that didn't even get dunked in the water.

On my boat trailer, I have Kodiak disc with electric/hydraulic. Best of both worlds as far as I am concerned. You get the reliability of the hydraulic disc brakes and the brake control of electric.

Electric over hydraulic is the way to go, no ifs , ands or buts about it