Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

[ohiogto1969]

I just bought a boat, motor and trailer from a guy in Ohio and he represented the boat as a 1998 boat, 1998 motor. The titles stated the motor was a 1998. Well when I got home I started looking for parts for the 1998 Johnson 120 HP motor and couldn't find any pages that showed Johnson making a 1998 120 HP. I got the title out and checked the model year (j120tlcca) What I learned is the " CC" in the model represent the model year which comes back as 1988.

So in a nutshell I paid 5500 dollars for a a boat and motor believed to be 1998's. The title has not been transferred in my name yet. I called the guy and told him I wanted a full refund. What are your thoughts? Is this fraud? He has til the end of the day to get back with me for a solution. Heck for all I know the boat can be a 1988, I will have to check it out.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

Chances are he was also an inexperienced boater and didn't know the difference. All he knew was that his title said 98, and that's what the guy that sold it to him told him.

You'll know if its fraud if he refuses to refund your money.

 

[ohiogto1969]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

I am not so sure about the inexperienced boater part, he lived on a major waterway, doing a google search of his phone number shows me he deals in boats a lot. Oh and I met the guy at his friends marine shop. The mechanic that helped him sell the boat knew a whole lot about boats. Since this is all new to me, I just a half hour ago went to the boat to make sure the boat is a 1998 and learned the Hull ID plate has been removed. I called a dealer who deals with this brand of boat and he said call the manufacturer there should be a hidden location on the hull that has the serial number of the boat. I imagine I will have to wait til Monday to hear back from them.

 

[Beefer]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

Caveat Emptor


With that said, you would have to prove he had knowledge of the years being different then he represented them to be. Do the serial numbers on the title and motor match? If they do, it sounds like a clerical error at DMV, and he would be in the clear. As for the missing hull ID plate, like Jim said, call the mfg, and find the other vin #. Sounds like this was a private party sale, you will almost certainly lose if you were to take this to court. Sorry to tell you that. "Experienced boater" makes no difference. Think of it if it were a car; would you buy it without matching the VIN on the car to the title presented? You've been driving a car for how many years, so you're an 'experienced driver', which does not make you knowledgeable in vehicle transactions.

Model year of the motor aside, when you look at the boat objectively, do you feel you got what you paid for?

 

[ohiogto1969]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

No I don't feel like I got what I paid for, the way it is looking I think the boat is a 1988 also. So the boat was advertised as a 1998 boat and 1998 outboard that is what I paid for. What I got is a 1988 motor and what I believe is a 1988 boat, I am certainly not happy. I appreciate your input.

 

[ohiogto1969]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

The serial numbers match on the title for the outboard, my problem is he listed it as a 1998 and the title reflects 1998 but the model and serial come back as a 1988 when checked. If I am screwed I am screwed just looking for guidance to deal with it.

 

[JB]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

Well, it probably isn't as bad as you think, Ohiogto. In fact the 1988 model is likely to be a better outboard than the 1998. In 1998 OMC quality was suffering from employee morale problems and many outboards were poorly made.

Outboards are not cars. They do not wear out or depreciate on a calendar basis. They can stay as good as new for many years or be turned into scrap by neglect and abuse in just a few.

 

[Mikeyboy]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

It sounds like either at some point someone fraudulently registered it or there was an error at the DMV. Wether or not the person you bought it from knew and took advantage of it or was just misinformed is anyone's guess and I think you would be hard pressed to prove he intentionally defrauded you, even though he may have. As jb said that may actually mean you got a better motor and if the boat is in decent shape it may not be all that bad. Yes it sucks that you probably paid more than you would have if you had known it was an 88 but a good boat is a good boat no matter how old it is. There are tons of guys out there and in here running around in boats well older than that and loving them. I guess I would peruse trying to get your money back but if he won't just refund it it's probably not worth going any further. Just chock it up as one of life's lessons learned the hard way and get on with enjoying your new boat. Sorry if that is not the news you wanted. Good luck with whatever happens and I hope this experience doesn't sour you on boating. Also by the way, welcome to iboats.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

I am not so sure about the inexperienced boater part, he lived on a major waterway, doing a google search of his phone number shows me he deals in boats a lot. Oh and I met the guy at his friends marine shop. The mechanic that helped him sell the boat knew a whole lot about boats. Since this is all new to me, I just a half hour ago went to the boat to make sure the boat is a 1998 and learned the Hull ID plate has been removed. I called a dealer who deals with this brand of boat and he said call the manufacturer there should be a hidden location on the hull that has the serial number of the boat. I imagine I will have to wait til Monday to hear back from them.

That paints a whole different picture. If he "deals" he undoubtedly knew what he was selling. 88 and 98 motors are different colors. A removed plate is highly suspect - it is either stolen or purposely represented as newer than it really is.

Ask for a refund based on your proof that it was misrepresented. Use tact and don't imply that he was trying to cheat you - give him the benefit of the doubt. If he won't comply take him to small claims court.

 

[Chip Chester]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

If you elect to keep it (or are compelled to keep it) then at minimum make them fix the title (however that is done) before you sign and take ownership to it. Their mistake, their problem to fix. If you sign off, then you're guilty of fraud also, and you will need to explain it to the DNR folks... not a good thing. So, make them deal with the title issue. If they balk, let them know that the proper enforcement folks will be by to explain the details to them. That in itself may be enough to get your money back.

Then, cash the check, wait for it to fully clear, and report their butts anyway. They know what they're doing is wrong.

Chip

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

if it weren't for the missing plate, too, I'd think about keepnig it anyway, per JB's comments. Could have been an honest mistake, one digit typo, etc.
But the missing hull plate changes everything. Does this experienced boat seller have an eye patch and a parrot on his shoulder? Get out.

PS sometimes motor ages can be off a couple years. My Yamaha was made in 2002, sold new in 2004 as a 2003. Yam is trying to do away with motor years but the market won't let them.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

Your state titling authorities are there to handle problems exactly like this.

Present them with the documentation and the boat and motor.

They likely have title records going back many years.
They should be able to quickly see if and/or when the records were altered.
Or perhaps the documents in your possession were altered.

Now, with state verified documentation, you confront the seller, preferably through the court system. Its safer.
You never know, you may be dealing with stolen property, not just fraud.

Get your ducks in a row before you make any deals with that seller.

 

[ohiogto1969]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

Thanks for all the replies, I am in contact with the boat manufacturer to locate the Hull ID that is hidden on the boat. At this point I am hoping the boat is not stolen. I have asked the seller for a refund and he said to call back today, well now he is not answering his calls. I am ready to chock it up as a lesson hard learned but not ready to give up totally, I will file in the small claims court and see what they decide.

 

[ohiogto1969]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

Update: I found the Hull Id number. I was looking for a metal non removable plate but upon a much closer look I found the Hull ID was etched into the fiberglass on the transom, it does indeed match the title. The title is still messed up and DMV may be able to fix it for me since the hull id matches.

 

[rockyrude]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

So, does this mean you have a 1998 boat with 1988 motor? Things might not be so bad after all.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

2 numbers on the outboard one is on freeze plug other is on transom there is a possibilty that the power head is newer than the transom mount. the year of the motor is less important than the condition of the motor unless i thought it still had warrenty then i would be highly upset

 

[ohiogto1969]

Re: Outboard Title Problem Fraud?

Yes a 1998 boat with a 1988 motor. I am pretty much over it, I am just going to move on. Again thanks all.