Overpower my boat

hoavannguyen

Cadet
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Messages
17
Good morning,<br />I have a 20 foot powercat that I recently powered with twin 100-HP 4-stroke Yamaha. My stern is noticeable more heavy than before. During take off, my bow rise a lot more than I want until the boat is planning. I also notice with throlling speed, my bow remain high. I had twin 60-HP 4-stroke Mariner before and my boat ride OK but I have no speed.<br />Can anyone suggest any idea that I can decrease my bow rise during take off and during throlling?<br />Thanks<br />Hoa
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Overpower my boat

Hydrofoils like Doel-fins or Stingrays and the trim tabs like Bennett or smart tabs.<br /><br />I have a 79 Fomula w/ twin 350s with the same problem. I have Deol-fins and Bennett trim tabs. The Doel-fins did the trick for me to the point where I hardly use my tabs any more.
 

cobra 3.0

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
1,797
Re: Overpower my boat

I have the stingray hydrofoil on my boat. It definitely keeps the bow down and brings the boat on plane much quicker. It also reduces the lean on tight turns ( I use my boat for tubing with the kids).
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Overpower my boat

With twin 100 hp four stroke motors, hydrofoils are not going to give you what you need, the weight is too much and the added surface area is not enough. They may help a little but not nearly enough. Search under Trim Tabs and Smart Tabs,
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Overpower my boat

Why would they work on a 28' Formula that weighs 6,600 lb with twin Chevy 350s and not on a 20' boat with a couple of 100hp Yamahas? Liek I said, I don't even use my tabs anymore.<br /><br />Try the hydrofoils first. They are like $30 a piece. If that doesn't work then spring for the tabs.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
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Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Overpower my boat

Ralph,<br /><br />I don't want to get into a debate, but I suspect that your tabs are retracted to flush with the bottom of the hull. Even in this position, you are getting lift from them as they are extending the hull. As a matter of information, the minimum<br />tab width for each side on your boat should be 24". If they are smaller they would be less effective and the added surface area of the hydrofoil would be beneficial from a planing viewpoint. Given the size of the boat they probably don't effect the cruising or high speed operation, since their surface area is small in proportion to the boat.<br /><br />Since we do not recommend using both Trim Tabs and Hydrofoils on boats under 22 feet, the $60.00 is a gamble.
 

Ralph 123

Captain
Joined
Jun 24, 2003
Messages
3,983
Re: Overpower my boat

Not looking to debate - I really am curious.<br /><br />All I can fit is 12 x 9s (12 wide anyway) She only has an 8' beam which could be why the foils work better than the tabs in my case.<br /><br />Why no tabs and foild on boats < 22'?<br /><br />Do you have smart tabs that are 12 x something great than 9 that would work better? I get no thrill out of manually adjusting the tabs anyway and would be happy to replace them with somehing better.
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Overpower my boat

Ralph; <br /><br />Rule of thumb is about 1" of tab width to 1 ' of boat length. In your case you do not have enough width to accomodate wider tabs. I would check with the manufacturer to see if they have longer Tabs. The idea is more surface area. I also understand that adjusting the tabs continuosly can be a pain, especially if you are doing something else like pulling skiers. Anyway, we do not currently make a bigger plate than 12" x 9" as our cut off is about 22 ft in length. <br /><br />Since I am not a fan of Hydrofoils (for handling reasons) I would still recommend that you contact the tabs manufacturer regarding longer plates. It is likely that you would not need to change anything other than the plates. <br /><br />On the other hand if you are happy with what you have, that is all that counts. If you want to talk call 800-233-0194.<br /><br />The reason for not running both the hydrofoil and the Smart Tabs is that it is guaranteed to cause too much stern lift and bow pressure. The boat will bow steer, lay over hard in turns and more. Not good. Every time someone has run both, they end up on the phone with me trying to find out why the boat is handling badly.
 

hoavannguyen

Cadet
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Messages
17
Re: Overpower my boat

Thank you for all the reply. I will receive my Stingray hydrofoil stabilizer in a few days from West Marine. I will put them on along with a decrease in the pitch for my propeller from 19 to 15. My max RPM on the 19 blade is only 4500. I need to get between 5000 and 6000 RPM on these 100HP 4-stroke.<br />I will let everyone that reply if it work or not. <br />For my curiosity, NautiJohn, what can I do if the engine is too heavy for my boat? Thanks<br />Hoa
 

Jdeagro

iboats.com Partner
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Jul 30, 2003
Messages
1,682
Re: Overpower my boat

hoa;<br /><br />Your first post indicated that you had installed twin 100 Hp four stoke Yamaha's and this was a replacement for 60 Hp engine. Needless to say this has added a great deal of weight directly on the stern. You have seriously changed the balance of the boat. <br /><br />As stated in the previous posts for your question, I do not think you will get the lift you need to allow the boat to troll with the bow in a comfortable position, or come up on plane easily. You will likely notice some difference, however not what you should or could get. Your looking at a $60.00 investment, your time, a few holes in the cavitation plates of your new motors, and you will find out one way or another. I am assuming you will be running in the Pacific, and the best trolling for game fish will be about 12 to 15 knots, the bow will be high.<br /><br />Also, don't run hard in the Pacific chop with the hydrofoils, as you boat will be stern heavey and the cavitation plates were not designed to take this stress. <br /><br />If the hydrofoils do not work out, you should remove them and install Trim Tabs ( Smart Tabs or helm controlled trim tabs).<br /><br />By the way, if you put the trim tabs on the boat you would not need to reduce the pitch so dramatically, and would improve both RPMs and Top Speed. Keep in mind by reducing the pitch you will be turning the engine ( from 19 to 15") 22% more every mile which will increase fuel cost, especially at trolling speeds. You will pay for the prop change and the hydrofoils every time you leave the dock. You may want to come down in pitch but in my estimation that is too much. <br /><br />Trying to fix small boats handling and performance issues with the motor and the prop is a very old and tradiiontal compromise.
 

Tabman

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Messages
566
Re: Overpower my boat

Hoa,<br /><br />We have experience with putting Trim Tabs on catamarans as we supply them to both OEM manufactures and to the aftermarket. Here is a link to a page at our web site that illustrates installing Trim Tabs on an 18 ft Sea Cat with a Suzuki 115 4 stroke on the transom. http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/seacat18.htm <br /><br />
seacat1.jpg
<br /><br />We also make some specialty Tabs that are used on various OEM catamaran and limited space installations that will help in applications like your boat with twins. <br /><br />I believe that remotely adjustable Trim Tabs will provide control and versatility, and allow the boat to run more efficiently over a boarder range of conditions Since you can control the amount of lift generated you will be able to run safely in a following sea or hold the bow down at lower throttle settings as well as adjust for side to side weight shifts when people move about the boat.<br /><br />I thought you would like to see this.<br /><br />Tom McGow<br />Bennett Marine
 

Tabman

iboats.com Partner
Joined
Feb 21, 2002
Messages
566
Re: Overpower my boat

Ralph,<br /><br />As we discussed in an earlier post adding larger Trim Planes to the exsiting Tabs will go a long way in improving performance. It would be easy to install 12" x 12" Trim Planes in place of the existing 12" x 9" Planes. Drop me an e-mail at Tmcgow@bennetttrimtabs.com If I can find a set of returned "slightly used" 12" x 12" Trim Planes in our factory I would be intrested in arranging a no cost swap for you to see what I am talking about.<br /><br />Tom McGow<br />Bennett Marine
 
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