Painting Aluminum

IndyFish

Seaman
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
56
Just thought I'd start a new thread for this one. (I'm told those are the rules when you get off subject)

Searching through the forums I find different answers for this one. It's not a big arguement yet, so let's make it one! haha

Painting aluminum. Before I sink down the deck for good in my rebuild/hackup I'm going to paint the insides so she looks better. Everyone kind of says to use Rusto Self Etching Primer, then whatever the heck you want on top of that. After talking to a friend of mine that works on small airplanes, he says different.

Just to cover the basics before this gets to be a "look around on the forums dummy" subject, this is what I've found.

What I've found around iboats: You MUST use self etching in order for anything to stick to aluminum. period.

What airplane man states: If you use self etching on aluminum, then paint over it it will actually continue etching in the sealed in coat. Eventually it COULD do damage. His disclaimer... Aircraft have strict regulations, and everything you do or have done must be documented and be to code. BUT he has seen it in action, having to strip down newly painted pieces of a plane because etching primer was used, and finding that it affected the aluminum.

He says they have to (first strip it) then a seperate etching chemical, then a neutralize it with another chemical to STOP the process. Then paint it.

What are your thoughts. And what have you all done? and has it held up? Thanks in advance!
 

Yacht Dr.

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
5,581
Re: Painting Aluminum

This is how I do it ..

http://forums.iboats.com/boat-restoration-building-hull-repair/steps-prep-aluminuim-pics-457159.html

I know what you mean with the FAA .. I worked with LoPresti and it was a detailed environment.

There are windows ( time frames ) that you must adhere to when applying the Conditioner and Converter coatings .. and after that you should prime ASAP.

Alumiprep and Alodine .. then a Primer for your application ( we always used a 2 part epoxy primer such as 545 ).

The ZC primer is sometimes not used and only a 2 part primer is in its place. .. Depending on the application ..

Ask your guy if this is correct :) ..

YD.

PS. The above does not suggest that Lopresti uses this process .. Nor does it suggest that this process ever happened while I was employed.
 

IndyFish

Seaman
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
56
Re: Painting Aluminum

That is actually exactly what he said. I just didn't want to get into too much detail. (And I couldn't remember the number he told me for the primer) But very detailed, thanks for the link! Just so I've got what you're saying though.... You would do this on bare aluminum as well? I'm really just painting the inside for now, trying to get rid of the sun-glare.

Also, Nice disclaimer!
 

IndyFish

Seaman
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
56
Re: Painting Aluminum

I'll save everyone the hastle of jumping down my throat. Never mind about the bare aluminum question. I turned this tread into a "read the forums dummy". Actually "read the link YD posted all the way through".

Thanks again!
 

OldStardust

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
40
Re: Painting Aluminum

I have a couple of things I want to mention here. I don't think credentials are always important, but I just want to put this out there. Please don't think I'm not trying to be Mr. Authority here. I don't have a closed mind. I was in the Navy, and I was an Aviation Structural Mechanic (AMS). I did a lot of work with aluminum there. After my HD, I ended up going back to school and getting my degree in Chemical Engineering. Now I have a technical position for a light metal finishing company where we do chromate conversion coatings (Alodine), Type II anodizing and also Type III anodizing. We can dye the finishes too.

When it comes to the surface preparation of aluminum, I have a pretty good understanding. I work with some people who are early pioneers in the business; so if I don't know the answer, I can find it. I'm putting this out there, because I'd like to help. I'd also like to help anyone that might be interested in looking at some of these surface preparation techniques.

First off, I haven't read any bad information in this thread. It all looks pretty good. I'd like to say something about the etching process. In general, aluminum is etched using alkaline "soap" solutions. The reason for this is to remove surface impurities. The exact formulae of these chemicals is closely guarded. The object is to obtain a water-break-free surface. Following the etching process, the surface is rinse then deoxidized to remove smut. During the etching process, material is removed and different alloys of aluminum react differently. 60-series comes out real nice, but 20-series and 70-series can turn pretty black. The 20-series doesn't lighten back up very well. The deoxidation takes place in a diluted solution of nitric acid.

If you want to get overloaded, but well informed about chromate conversion, check out the following MIL spec:

MIL-C-5541 E - CHEMICAL CONVERSION COATINGS ON ALUMINUM ALUMINUM

Once you get into the spec a little bit, you'll see references to all kinds of primers. paints and varnishes. You can say what you want about the government and military spending... Believe me, I have a lot of things I complain about all the time. But when it comes to airplanes and military stuff, the US knows what it's doing and doesn't screw around with stuff that doesn't work. Trust me, I do all the monthly testing on these coatings. They work!

Chromate conversion, you can do at home if you can get your hands on the chemicals. We use Iridite 14, a MacDermid product. I think Henkel makes Alodine. The anodizing process is electrochemical. It's not the kind of thing one would do at home. It actually converts the surface aluminum to a ceramic, aluminum oxide (Al2O3). It's really just corrosion, but imparts all kinds of beneficial properties to the aluminum. Look up Types II and III anodizing. Type II, Class 2 is a dyed product. I was thinking about doing some of the stuff on my Stardust with this coating, maybe the aluminum windshield hardware. Anyone else have ideas? Type III anodizing imparts great hardness in addition to corrosion resistance. Here's another link for you. It's the MIL spec on anodic coatings:

MIL-A-8625 F - ANODIC COATINGS ALUMINUM ALUMINUM ALLOYS

You notice a Type I coating in this spec. It's not the same as the Type I - Compositions containing hexavalent chromium mentioned in MIL spec 5541. Keep in mind, hexavalent chrome is very poisonous! Read the MSDS! Alodine contains some serious chemicals: chromic acid, hydrofluoric acid and Potassium ferricyanide. Some are carcinogenic.

ftp://69.2.51.153/pub/MSDS/508044_Alodine1201MSDS.pdf

I'm not trying to scare anyone, just be careful! Another thing you want to be sure to look at (back to the cool stuff) is the SEM images of Types II and III anodized surfaces. What kind of paint adhesion do you think you could get with a honeycombed surface like that!

Anyway, that's my bit. Thanks for reading!
 
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