Planing Issues

[swansont]

Originally posted by Mischief Managed:<br />

Originally posted by swansont:<br /> es, I have a 1987 Sea Ray 210 Monaco that's a cuddy. It was supposed to have the 5.7, but the original owner had a 454 installed. I'm not totally happy with the 454, just because of the weight, and I had a hydro-lock issue, which was my own fault. But that said, with 330 hp and 1000 lbs of folks on board, as said earlier, there are hole shot and planing issues. I have to keep the crew in the front, if I want the one in the water out quickly. The power's there, it's just a big boat. I don't think you'll be happy with it. JMHO

A 454 only weighs 133 lbs more than a 350. I think there's something wrong if you have holeshot issues with a 330HP 454 in a 21 foot boat. That thing should get on plane in it's own length. My 25 footer has a 454 and it pops up on plane with no problem at all and without using tabs, even with 10 people on board. I only use my tabs to adjust running attitude.

I didn't want to hijack the thread that this was posted in, so a new thread is in order. MM, this is my first I/O, one of the reasons I bought it was for the size of the boat and the 454. I always thought it was strange that I had the planing problems. With crew in the aft, it takes forever to plane, regardless of trimming. I have wondered before if perhaps I had prop problems. The prop that the boat has on it is a SS 5 blade, measures 14-14.5 inch, and has 19 stamped on the hub. WOT it runs about 5000 rpm, from what I've read it should be 4500-4800. It will run out at about 50-52 mph with myself, and maybe one other. I'm don't need to go that fast, I would rather be able to plane and have a better hole shot. Any ideas?

 

[Chris1956]

Re: Planing Issues

Swan, It sounds like you have other issues. It appears that you have a 19" pitch prop, which is a bit small for your boat as evidenced by the 5000RPM WOT. A 21" pitch prop would likely be a better one for WOT RPM, but would impact your holeshot, which is already bad. See the inconsistancy. Also, experience says that a 454 should be overkill for a boat of that size. My 19 footer has a 4.3LX, and good performance(45MPH), and I looked at a 25 cabin boat with a 5.0L V8, which supposedly gave good performance. Is it possible not all your cylinders are working during holeshot?

 

[QC]

Re: Planing Issues

I'm with Chris. Something else is wrong. That prop should make your hole shot better, not worse, so there is something weird here. Which drive? Are you sure you are getting it trimmed all of the way down? This is not a weight thing unless that hull is really water logged. Can you weigh the combo?<br /><br />I have a 6.2 320 small block (your comparable 454 rating would be 310 at the propshaft) in a 23 footer and I run a 23" prop and still get good hole shot, and I can run mid-50s as well. Sumpin' is simply not right with your setup.<br /><br />If there is nothing wrong or you can't find it, trim-tabs would definitely help.

 

[Doug Durako]

Re: Planing Issues

That older design of hull was meant to run about 40. In a boat that age, you may be taking on water through bad spots in the hull.<br /><br />Also, what elevation are you at in Colorado? Is the motor carbed or fuel injected?

 

[swansont]

Re: Planing Issues

I'll try to get to a scale in the next few weeks, as the weather starts breaking. I'm not taking water on, the hulls in almost perfect shape, I dump little water when I ramp it. My ratio is 1.32:1, and I'm trimming it all the way down. Elevation's about 4800 ft, and the motor is carbed. Had the carb off and checked in Denver, it was fine. If I was dropping cylinders, wouldn't the overall performance suffer? Like I said, it will do 50+ once it planes out. I guess I'll keep trying, I have thought about trim tabs though. Thanks for the replies, appreciate the input. I take all that I get.

 

[QC]

Re: Planing Issues

How are you getting your top speed numbers? I think dd is onto something with the altitude yet, your top speed number still disagrees with that . . .

 

[swansont]

Re: Planing Issues

Speedo on the boat, I haven't made the jump to GPS yet. Probably should check that out ASAP, I've relied on the speedo in the boat........I should know better.

 

[Doug Durako]

Re: Planing Issues

What year is your Alpha drive and how deep is it running under the lowest part of your hull?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Planing Issues

My ratio is 1.32:1, Elevation's about 4800 ft, and the motor is carbed.

I'm Not saying it Is your problem,.......<br /><br />But,......<br />Isn't it generally accepted that Carbed motors are Geared at the Next Lower Gearset when running at High Altitudes...............<br /><br />1.50/1, in Your case.....<br />1.65/1, for Most V8s......<br />1.84/1, for the V6s........<br /><br />I've Always lived Near sea level,... <br />But I remember my old horse would Really Grunt,+ run out of breath in those Big Hills,... Back when I was Trucking.......

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Planing Issues

One thing you didn't tell us is your hull condition. Is it baby's breath spankin clean, or is it crudded up from sitting at the marina with algae and all? Certainly makes a difference.<br /><br />You should be able to scale performance numbers for your altitude from automobile data, available from some auto club.<br /><br />HTH,<br /><br />Mark

 

[swansont]

Re: Planing Issues

DD, I'll have to check that this weekend, when I get her untarped. Bondo, I'm sure of the gear set, counted teeth last year. The original owner did a lot of boating at Powell, maybe he figured lower elevations. Tex, hull is pristine, never stays in the water for more than a day, less than a dozen times during our short season. Maybe a super tune this spring before water time, have someone check the carb setup while it's running. I'll keep taking ideas though.

 

[mmainelli]

Re: Planing Issues

My 2 cents - sounds like your boat/engine is in fat city once it gets "over the hump". With a carbed engine, your second barrel set could be kicking in too soon (whether vacuum or mechanical), drowning the engine in gasoline at low end (the holeshot area), until rpms build up enough to burn the extra juice.

 

[Reel Poor]

Re: Planing Issues

I ran into a Regal owner with the same type of complaint you have. Everybody had been trying to tune it up to make it run right to no avail. The boat ran fine on top end but was a dog out of the hole. To make a long story short, the boat had an aftermarket engine installed (330hp carbed 454 ) that had the wrong heads on it. The remanufacturer had put a set of heads on that had huge intake runners. I dont remember all the specs or numbers on the heads but it took some reseaarch to figure out what was supposed to be on the engine. We swaped the heads to what was supposed to be on the engine and it was like night and day. Great bottom end and still the same top end.