Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

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achris

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In Australia we are experiencing some unusual financial situations, increases in interest rates, financial institutions tightening guidelines etc. We have been told it's because of the sub-prime crisis in the US. We don't have anything called a 'sub-prime' here, and I'm told that we don't have anything like it.

So, could someone explain to me
1. what this 'sub-prime' is,
2. what the crisis was/is and
3. how it effects the rest of the world.

Thanks for your help,

Chris............
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

sub prime were loans made to people, with a low interest rate, low payment, that later the interest and payments were sheduled to go up. thus the borrowers situation (income) did not increase, no they can no longer, afford their higher payment. the loans are going into default, and forecloseure. the guidelines for the loans were lax (sub prime), compared to conventional loans.

now there are millions of loans that are on the verge of default. the lenders money is tied up in this mess.

the Big world wide lenders are tied to this mess.
 

SgtMaj

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

Well, a little over 2 years ago, interest rates fell to their lowest in decades over here. When that happened, many people who otherwise couldn't have afforded to buy a house, were able to buy houses. But many of them did so by getting an ARM (Adjustable Rate Mortgage). So after 2 years, when their interest rates adjusted, and went up in most cases by at least 3%, many of those people then couldn't afford to pay their mortgages, so they fell behind in payments or even went into forclosure (when the bank takes the house away and sells it in auction, usually for only about half of what the borrower owes on it).

The reason it's called sub-prime is that these people because of their financial situations or credit history were/are at what's called a sub-prime rate (that is a higher interest rate than the prime rate).

To compound the problem, many financial institutions were lending mortgages to people who really couldn't afford them in the first place.

Because of this, many of those mortgage companies are now facing financial problems of their own. This same thing happened back in the '80's when interest rates soared, but back then it was much less widespread than today.
 

SS MAYFLOAT

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

No doubt it is a mess. I blame credit cards, the appraisers, and the financial institutions for the mess. If they all would have done proper credit checks, they would have found that many would have not qualified for the loans.

I have just about come to the point of being overly extended and putting my household in jeopardy. Luckily I am able to make my payments thanks to credit card counseling and better knowledge on how to maintain a budget.

I have also heard that those that have refinanced to do improvements to their home used the money to move to another state or spent the money for other stuff.

Yep, its a mess and to me, the banks and lenders were toohappy to give their money out. It is the number one money making business in America,,,,,,,,,go figure?
 

achris

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

Thanks for the clarifications... Basically the lenders are in trouble and trying to pull money from the rest of the world to prop themselves up, yes?

I know what you mean by over-extending... As well as the banks and credit companies I also put a lot of the blame on real estate agents. A few years back, when I was looking at buying a place, I had a very definite budget... The agents here advertise with bracketed prices, like $450,000-$500,000. I looked at places with my budget at the lower end of the bracketed price. I saw a few places I liked and put in offers at the low end of the asking price. The agents told me straight up that they wouldn't be accepted. When I started to quiz them about this I finally got a straight answer. They price the houses like that to attract people whose budget is at the lower end of the bracket, who wouldn't have looked at the place if the pricing had been most truthful. The hope is that these people will love the place and extend themselves to a higher price in order to secure the property. I call them sharks... They make money from these people's future suffering.

Thanks again to the people who responded,

Chris............
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

i don't blame the real estate brokers. the US, is a want it now, economy. they don't want to take a few steps to get to where they want to be. they want the big house now, not a house they can afford. and move up in 5 to 10 years. it is the same with cars, boats etc. Cars and Boats are also being reposessed. it the choice of house or the boat, or the BMW.

i blame the lenders that bought these sub prime loans, with the expectation of raping the consumer, at a later date with high interest rates.

everyone involved, took a chance of this, and are now getting bite in the butt.

i feel sorry for people loosing there house. but with the truth in lending laws in the US, they new what they were getting into.
 

tommays

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

IMHP it started about 8 years ago when i bought my current home and the prices were going up like rockets

I had put a deposit on a home AND the home appraisal came back out of WACK as they were unable to find any COMP home sales within the correct area

I noticed that the COMP homes were miles away and rejected the home appraisal which caused a S??? storm and a lot of red faced sales people,bankers and the home appraisal company as they had been caught bumping the price about 75000 dollars :eek:


Now i am sure many other people would have wanted the home bad enough to fall into the hype that the value would have caught up, BUT as this was my 3rd time playing the home buying game i walked away and found a correctly priced home in a private sale and left the pros to keep riping off the public:mad:

Tommays
 

achris

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

I blame the lenders that bought these sub prime loans, with the expectation of raping the consumer, at a later date with high interest rates.

everyone involved, took a chance of this, and are now getting bite in the butt.

Now that the bubble has burst, we're all getting raped!! The lenders may go down, but it looks like they'll take a lot of others with them. Same as the insurance industry after 9/11. They didn't take the hit, they just passed it on to the people who couldn't protest about it. Us!!! the bottom of the food chain, again!!!

God,, I hate big business for it's ruthlessness.... Make money and don't care who you hurt.

I know the other side of that coin is that these are the same businesses who employ thousands.... I just hate it when they show such little regard for either their employees or their customers.

Ok, who next on the soapbox?

Chris.........
I have my house paid off, so the interest rate rises don't effect me, I'm just curious as to all the kfuff.
 

Caveman Charlie

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

I don't know how this fits in but, housing prices in my area started to sky rocket about 5-8 years ago. Anyone who bought a house at those inflated prices was kinda stupid. The problem I see is that the housing prices have not yet come down to a more reasonable level. At least not around here. I was thinking about buying one before they started to go up. I, and anyone else, on a lower middle income can not afford a house the way the prices are now. 10 years ago you could. There are a lot of empty houses for sale now that no one can afford.
 

bjcsc

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

SgtMaj and TD pretty much hit it on the head. The only thing I'll add is that the ARMs were pretty much a gamble. The buyer was counting on the house appreciating before the interest rate adjustment, and in many cases, counting on selling it after the appreciation and before the adjustment. In many of these loans the borrowers were only paying the interest and very little if any principal. When the houses did not appreciate it all came tumbling down.

I blame the whole thing on women's lib.. They completely devalued the stay at home Mom. Raising your children is the most important thing anybody can do (male or female), yet the women of this country were led to believe that it made them less for doing it. So they got careers, put the kids in daycare, and family incomes doubled. The economy responded by increasing the prices on everything. And what a fine crop of kids it produced, too. Stay tuned to the fallout achris...sadly this is just the beginning...
 

JCF350

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

One thing I didn't see mentioned was less disposable income. With less money to spend people are going to be buying less. With so many of the products here being imported from everywhere in the world what happens to the economy here affects every body. BTW gas prices have a major effect on this also.
 

OldMercsRule

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

OK this is a soft ball that came my way that maybe I can help a bit with.

Here goes.

The modern world is driven by debt issuance n' monetary tweekin' here n' there. This is one of those things the whole world has done as lead by the good ol' USA.

In the USA, (which has the largest economy [n' debts et al]), this corncept actually started in the 1930s when FDR's Administration invented the Federally subsidized 30 year FHA loan fer single family homes.

That single corncept werked very well ta encourage home ownership and has been copied all over the world.

In the early 1990s or late 1980s Wall Street, (where I werked, [here in Seattle], not New York), the major WS Firms started "securitizing" non Federally backed mortgages on real property and packagin' them n' sellin' them to smaller investers. They were called "CMOs" in those early days. I was a fixed income expert n' those things REALLY REALLY scared me, as they would break a 30 mortgage into "tranches" and sell the junk or trash tranches to the least sophisticated investors. Never bought the stuff unless me client refused ta listen' to me advice, (which does happen from time ta time).

We had a "bear market" in bonds in the early 1990s, (Mrs. Jones notes that means: rates went up), and small investors, (not my clients if I could help it), predictably got crushed.

Then WS, (real short memories when it comes ta makin' money on WS), started packagin' all sorts of debt into "CDOs" collateralized debt, (instead of only mortgage obligations). That was the ol' turbo button, (as Mrs. Jones likes ta say)!

In the late 1990s the Federal reserve rescued a number of players in "hedge funds", that should have been allowed ta fail, (hind sight bein' 20/20 n' all), and those types of unregulated players who use so much leverage, (borrowed money), they could threaten the entire world monetary systems with their speculations.

One of those BIG players, (who single handedly), crushed the Pound Sterling some years back, n' some Asian currencies in the late 1990s now totally owns one of the major political parties in the USA. Sooooo don't look fer any regulation of this type of very harmful activity anytime soon, (Mrs Jones correctly observes).

The issuance and reissuance of questionable debt and many of the world's banks (and investments in bond mutual funds fer smaller investors), now has a lot of this trash in their portfolios and they do not know how much will blow up or where it is.

Bill Gross (PIMCO), who runs more debt then any other person on this particular planet, was whinin' like a Socialist last summer, (n' he is a Capitalist). That was very tellin' how bad this deal is. I think I posted parts of his letter last summer here on iboats.

Banks in the US started issuin' loans, (called liar loans), that lacked the basic documentation previously required on large loans. These were the "sub prime", loans or even some that were in conformity with cornventional loans, n' they were repackaged by WS n' sold to everyone on this planet.

Bottom line. Way too much money was printed from the mid 1990s to today by the whole world's central banks. That caused fairly good economic times in most of the world. The price of housing went up in the USA but it went up even more in the rest of the world. Now we need ta let the terlet flush. Those who borrowed money they should not have borrowed need ta get hammered, n' those who bought the paper need ta get spanked too, (happenin' right now). Some of the banks who packaged the stuff need ta go away, n' one of the WS firms who was NET SHORT AS THEY CRAMMED THIS CARP DOWN THE THROATS OF THEIR BEST CLIENTS needs ta get a big spankin'.

Hopefully this will have a happy ending and the system withstands all the troublin' stuff I jus' spewed about. If not then it will not be sooooo good. I'm optomistic by me nature so lets hope fer the best, (but people should batton down those hatches fer a bit of a blow).

Hope this makes some sense to readers. If ya need some clarification I will try to reply to non specific questions, (as I can't give any specfic advice).

Respectfully, JR
 

Scaaty

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

It started with "911". We had planes fly into buildings, our economy tanked, the Fed's dropped the rates to darn near zero, pumped the money supply through the roof. HELOC's were easy to get, and dirt cheap rates.
Then just kept jacking the rates. Those increases, and 5 year adjustable's are sinply coming home to roost.
And we are just getting INTO the problem, not out. My take anyway..
 

mudmagnet63

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

OMR. Nailed it.
My .02 Many in America fefuse to look at long term issues. Credit Cards are used for everything, no savings, no future planing. Buy what you cannot afford because a friend has it. I live on a CASH only basis if I don't have the money I dont Buy. I have lived the other way, and being up to your A** in debt is SCARY.
 

Caveman Charlie

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

OMR. Nailed it.
My .02 Many in America fefuse to look at long term issues. Credit Cards are used for everything, no savings, no future planing. Buy what you cannot afford because a friend has it. I live on a CASH only basis if I don't have the money I dont Buy. I have lived the other way, and being up to your A** in debt is SCARY.


I too live on a cash only basis. I have a credit card for buying things from places like i boats but, I pay it off in full every month. I always have the money in my pass book savings account before I buy anything. I wonder if kids these days even know what pass book savings is? I have met young people on the Internet that say the schools now teach how to get credit but, not how to save money. I know there are reasons to borrow money but, we need to learn how to save as well.
 

Caveman Charlie

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

I blame the whole thing on women's lib.. They completely devalued the stay at home Mom. Raising your children is the most important thing anybody can do (male or female), yet the women of this country were led to believe that it made them less for doing it. So they got careers, put the kids in daycare, and family incomes doubled. The economy responded by increasing the prices on everything. And what a fine crop of kids it produced, too. Stay tuned to the fallout achris...sadly this is just the beginning...

I don't know if I blame this one on womens lib but, the rest of your statement I agree with. My landlords theory on why women went to work instead of staying home and raising children is because the government figure out you could get more taxes from a working woman.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'


BIG CORPORATE GREED........;)
Unfortunately it is the "little guy" who will get bent over in the end.......
Mr. Potter never panics.......
George Bailey knows that......;)
 

mscher

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

It's the new American way of life.

1. Buy something you can't afford, just because you want it, everybody else has one and someone is willing to lend you the money, no matter what.

2. When you can no longer pay, or simply don't want to anymore - WALK AWAY. Let the bank or somebody else deal with it.

3. Blame everyone else for the problem.

Yikes!
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Please help me understand 'sub-prime crisis'

How about the bank & credit card companies charge a reasonable rate for their loans instead of loanshark rates?......;)
They have brought some of the ruin upon themselves & hopefully our GUBMINT won't bail them out......:rolleyes:
They want to charge exhoribitant rates then pule when they don't get their money back....
I have no remorse for those that speculated on flipping property for profit, but I do for the average Joe who got his job outsourced or got forced out of business because he couldn't compete with companies that hire illegals.....
& that goes double for all of the FREE FOREIGN AID money that we give to just about every country on Earth, how about cutting off their free ride?......
I think we would be OK without all of these albatrosses around our necks.......:mad:
& Furthermore.......:D:D
 
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