Please Help Resin Aplication Methods!!!

[AJSVFORCE]

I have gone through almost 5 gallons on 2 stringers!!!!!
This is crazy! I know it cant take this much resin to apply csm to 2 stringers 11"x171"!
Please,does anyone know any tricks or methods that work well.
The resin I am using is vinyl ester and its pretty thick,I am trying to slowly poor the resin along the top of the stringer and spread it out.
It just runs down the side and all the way to the bottom of the boat!
It does not want to soak in at all,is this normal?
Can i thin the resin to make it soak in better,and if so,what do you use and how much should i add to a quart?
That is all i can work with before it starts to harden.
My working time is about 25 min.
My hardner is Organic Peroxide,and i have reduced it a little with only 3 or 4 more min. work time.
This resin has a "RANCH DRESSING" consistantcy!
Thanks for the help,
Andy

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Please Help Resin Aplication Methods!!!

OK, let's get down to some very basic basics. When you glass something (stringers etc.), paint the resin onto your work fairly heavy (you've got plenty of cheap paint brushes handy right?), then lay the glass in place and work with it a little bit to get it positioned properly and laying down as best as possible. Then paint just enough extra resin on the glass to get it wet out. CSM has a habit of grabbing onto brushes and making a big mess if you press too hard, A V-nothced roller is handy to help spread the resin and make the mat lay down.

To help speed things up a hair dryer (used in moderation) aids in wetting out the glass.

Is CSM what was on your boat's stringers originally? I'd expect cloth or rovings there, but who knows.

And no, I wouldn't cut the resin with any solvent, the strength would be compromised.

 

[AJSVFORCE]

Re: Please Help Resin Aplication Methods!!!

I tried painting the wood first,and ended up not having enough time to finish.
The boat looked like it had roving only on the stringers.
The shop that i bought all my glassing supplies from told me to use Csm,then 6 oz. cloth and last roving.
Is this overkill,can i just use one layer of roving?
Is there more than one thickness of resin?
Would it be easier with thinner resin?
Thanks

 

[redfury]

Re: Please Help Resin Aplication Methods!!!

Any reason you are using Vinylester resin over Polyester resin? I can wet out a 10"x10ft section of 1708 ( 8oz mat, 17oz biaxial cloth stitched together...totaling 24oz of fiberglass ) with 500cc/ml( 1/2 quart approx. ) of polyester resin. 2 layers of heavier cloth took 1000cc/ml ( cc/ml are the same essentially for measuring resin ). I'm using 1% hardener and have plenty of time to work with the resin.


Here's what you might want to try doing....mix up a batch of 500ml and paint it out immediately, lay your glass in it. Then mix up another batch and start wetting it out. As long as you are making small batches and laying it out, it doesn't have the chance to gel due to exothermic reaction of being in the mixing container. Small batches spread out on the stringers will give you a lot more working time, especially if you aren't in direct sunlight or in too hot of an environment.

My work today went so smoothly! 500ml batches, in the shade, temps around 78F. I couldn't have asked for a better day of fiberglassing.

Let us know what you've been doing as far as your procedure and we'll see if there is something to tweak to get this working better for you.


How much resin are you mixing, what ratio of resin to catalyst, temps, direct or indirect sunlight, etc.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: Please Help Resin Aplication Methods!!!

The shop that i bought all my glassing supplies from told me to use Csm,then 6 oz. cloth and last roving.

That sounds reasonable. Something that might be easier though is DBM1708 biax from US Composites it combines CSM with 2 plies of roving all in one. For my stringers the 12" wide tape was perfect, and since the plies are at +- 45 degrees they lay down going around corners fairly well.

What you can do when glassing multiple layers is after one layer of glass is all wet out go ahead and "paint" on a little extra resin so that the next layer of glass can soak up resin from the bottom.

Is there more than one thickness of resin?
Would it be easier with thinner resin?

Wet-out does go faster with a thinner resin, but it's not the end of the world to work with some that's a bit thicker. Most of my experience with fiberglass was with building a fiberglass airplane from plans, and that called for using exclusively epoxy. I didn't start using polyester resin until I built some seat boxes for my boat a couple of years ago. There's really not a ton of difference in working with them, but the epoxy (at least with a slow hardener) is more forgiving in the amount of work time you have.

Oh, something else. Mix relatively small batches of resin at one time (maybe 1/3 to 1/2 cup at first). As you work more with it you'll learn how much you can use before it starts to set up on you. And using a hair dryer to get a bit of heat into the glass as you work helps too, just don't let it heat up one spot for too long.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Please Help Resin Aplication Methods!!!

Your mistake was installing the stringer first then glassing the sides, they are 11" tall right? thats a lot of vertical to deal with over a long run.

So much easier to pre-glass them both sides, sand and rinse with acetone then install them and all you have to do is tab in place.

At this point I'd work in smaller sections a couple feet at a go, use a big brush to get it on there, really slop it on with a 4 incher then get the glass in place and stipple or stamp it with the brush or use a glass roller, don't use brush strokes. Pound the resin into the glass with the brush.!
Clean the brush and mix the next batch.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Please Help Resin Aplication Methods!!!

Like I said in your other post, skip the cloth, its doing nothing, in fact it may make this laminate weaker.

Use a fuzzy roller to pre-coat the wood with resin, then let it soak in and get hard. Then apply more resin with the roller and put the mat down on the resin, now wet out the glass with the roller. Only use enough resin to wet it out, no more, no less. Repeat this until all the layers are in place . The fuzzy roller will get much of the air out, but you need to use a F/G roller to get all of it.

Like the others said, mix the catalyst at 1% and in small batches, VE resin can be a little tougher to work with, but make sure you have everything ready and work fast.

Get the cheap 6 or 8 pack of fuzzy roller and chuck em as soon as the start to get hard, or between each work session, same with the brushes. It will cost more in acetone to clean them than it will to chuck em.

 

[AJSVFORCE]

Re: Please Help Resin Aplication Methods!!!

Perhaps i am trying to do to much at a time. I have a stopwatch to keep track of how much time i have left to work and keep looking at it and trying to go as fast as i can. I am working about 4 foot sections,the stringers are 11" tall and have about 4" on each side to attach to the floor.
I have about 23 min. working time before it starts to gel. Temps were around 82 and I am in the shade.
I was told that the poly was the cheapest,and most boats are made of it but they are made with a mold so everything sets at the same time.
The guy said i would get better adhesion with the vinyl. All that could have been just BS, but i guess it really dont matter now its what i have, and i cant afford epoxy.
I am using organic peroxide at 1.25% and have backed off a little,but i only seem to get a few more min.
I have tried to paint on the resin first but it seems the time i take to do that,and i dont have enough time to wet everything and ended up running to mix another batch.
I am mixing a quart at a time.
Man I hope I can get this figured out,my ol lady is going to blow a gasket when she finds out i need to get more resin!!!
Thanks,this is my first restoration and im scared to death im going to ruin
our boat and will have spent all this money for nothing.
But I can say I bought it by working on a guys truck,and now I am working on the same guys Jeep and im getting paid with Marine Plywood.

 

[AJSVFORCE]

Re: Please Help Resin Aplication Methods!!!

Here is a pic when it still looked like a boat.

 

[seven up]

Re: Please Help Resin Aplication Methods!!!

I have gone through almost 5 gallons on 2 stringers!!!!! Andy

At this rate your gonna have to raise the bootstripe.