Please help with stupid and damaging questions

Apathetic

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
87
First, thanks for any information and help you may provide. Second, if there is any information I failed to provide please tell me what you need and where I will find it. Again, thanks in advance.

I just purchased a 1992 Four Winns Liberator 201 cuddy cabin with an OMC King Cobra drive and a Ford 351. The engine appears to be a replacement as it has a Jasper repower sticker on it. On the passenger side valve cover is an OMC decal with:

Model # 584DPEAMK
Serial # T01242551

But another decal is placed over the lower part of that decal and it says:

Model # 987526
Serial # T00756837

Here's the story and my questions:

To date I have owned two 16' boats. One had a 1969 40 hp Johnson outboard and the other had a 1973 115 hp Mercury. I have maintained them myself and each run perfectly to this day. Each unit had a controller with a smaller control for the idle speed. This boat (the Four Winns that I'm asking about) has a single controller. When purchasing the boat from a consignment marina the marina salesman told me to PULL OUT the round knob which will disengage the shifter and it will then operate as throttle only. I noted this and off to sea trial we went. The boat performed wonderfully and we purchased it.

Upon getting it home I had difficulty starting it. I pulled out the knob exactly as he described and moved the throttle forward fully twice and back to neutral. The boat then started and idled like a top. What it won't do, however, is it won't start with the throttle in any position other than neutral. I have been told, and have read in the OMC King Cobra owners manual, that if I were to flood the engine I should move the throttle fully forward and crank the motor. The starter will not engage in any position other than in upright neutral. I assume this is a neutral safety switch, but why is it interrupting the starter when I follow as being told by disengaging the shifter? What obviously stupid thing have I done wrong, or was I told wrong?

Secondly, when starting the motor I connected and OMC flush kit to the drive, exactly as I have done for years with the Mercury and the Johnson outboard. Today I noticed (and smelled :% ) an exhaust colored smoke that smelled like (oh no) steamed shrimp coming from the upper unit. I shut the engine down immediately (it had run for less than 1 minute). The upper unit was quite hot and remained so for 30 to 45 minutes later and while it is cool now, if you put your nose to the upper unit it smells like steamed shrimp. I know that smell and that smoke = bad, but as a car guy I've never smelled anything burn up and smell like that. A very different odor.

Here is a picture of my control unit. Am I properly disengaging the shifter by following the marina salesman's advice? I'm not trying/attempting/or wanting to point the blame at anybody, I just want to make sure I'm doing this right and get an idea from you guys and gals if there has been damage done.

af048e05.jpg


Thanks again for reading. I know it's long, but I just want to provide as much information as possible and learn.
 

Blk-n-Blu

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 12, 2004
Messages
821
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

It looks as though, if you push the button at the pivot point ( bottom center of the throttle assy) it should disengage the gear and put you in throttle only mode (forward only) The button should click out when you throttle back to neutral. You did have the drive all the way down on the muffs8)
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

I can't really see that button in your controller, but you either push or pull it, and while holding in that position mover the lever forward out of neutral. If you go all the way back to neutral, it will engage the shifter, when that happens the neutral safety switch comes into play and will not let the engine crank over.
So, just "Pull" the button and move the lever forward. and DO NOT move back all the way to neutral or you will have to pull the button again.

Regarding you steamed shrimp.
You may have a bad impeller. It's under the plastic cover of the drive.
You really need to find some OEM service manuals for your engine and drive if you plan on doing the work on them.

On to your model and SN's.

Model # 584DPEAMK
Serial # T01242551
The above is your engine model numbers.
My guess is your boat had a new long/short block installed and the valve covers, intake, distributor, carb, etc. were reused. There for everything should be about the same.

Model # 987526
Serial # T00756837
This set is for the drive, it's a King Cobra, 1.50:1 ratio drive.
 

Apathetic

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
87
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

Don, thank you for the reply.

When he showed me he did not continue to pull the button! This answers my "neutral safety switch" concerns. THANK YOU.

As for the OEM manuals, yes, I will be buying them as soon as I can find them. I do my own work on my F-bodies and own the Helms manuals for them. Will do the same for this, too. Do you think I did upper unit damage from my first post description? I am very concerned about that. I think I ran it for 1 minute when the smoke first showed (and I raced to shut it off), my wife thinks it was only 30 seconds. I don't know for sure which.

Thanks again for the help.
 

Apathetic

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
87
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

The marina guy told me to PULL the button out (it will push in and it will pull out). Are you saying you think he might have told me wrong (therefore I am doing it wrong my pulling it out to supposedly disengage the shifter)?

Also, when you say "You did have the drive all the way down on the muffs" are you asking me if I had the drive in the down position? If so, yes it was down. I had it down as I would when I mount the flushing unit to my outboards.

I apologize for the lingo problems.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

You didn't hurt the drive at all running for a minute. Did you get any water out of the transom shield holes or the drive while it ran? You do have hot exhaust running through the drive, and there are critters in the water that could cause the smell. But I wouldn't be to worried about any major problems from that run, especially since you did have water to it.
 

Apathetic

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
87
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

Hi Don,

I cannot begin to thank you enough for helping as you are. I sincerely appreciate the time you've taken with me.

I cannot say for sure today, as at first I had just climbed out of the boat to check when I saw the smoke (this is why my wife think I had it running for 30 seconds or less). When I saw the smoke I immediately climbed back aboard (I need a step ladder to reach the swimming transom) and shut it off. The upper unit was quite hot to the touch.

Would you suggest I start the motor again tomorrow and observe the transome shield (because at this point I would not put paranoia past me)? The smoke, I do recall, was coming from near the upper unit and the transom shield area. It definitely was not coming from the prop area.

Thanks again Don.

James
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

could have also been normal exhaust smoke from a cold engine with the choke set. make sure you use FULL water pressure to the muffs at a minimum of 40 psi and a 3/4 hose.
I also bungee cord the muffs to the inlet, nothing like the muffs slideing off when your not looking. not that its ever ever happened to me.
 

Apathetic

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
87
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

Thanks for the reply and your time rodbolt.

Maybe I was being paranoid, I'm second guessing myself now. I do know I had full water pressure and that the muffs remained over the inlets the entire time with no exception. Good call on the bungee cord, I will take that advice and use that from here on out as every bit of insurance helps.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,581
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

I know that shifter well...owned two of them.

On that shifter, you push the button IN and advance the lever forward to increase throttle WITHOUT allowing the drive to shift into gear. You WILL be able to start the engine with the lever moved forward from vertical.

For normal operation, you squeeze the red area under the grip while moving the lever forward to go forward...likewise rearward for reverse.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,581
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

No, the shifter is fine. The Cobra shift linkage in question is the cable from the top of the engine to the stern drive.

If you have the 5.8L Ford engine, I don't believe you have the King Cobra...just the standard Cobra.
 

Apathetic

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
87
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

Hi bruceb58,

Thanks for your time and your reply!

So, the guy showed me wrong? He specifically showed me to pull it out and then pumped the throttle forward.

I cannot thank you enough for this and sharing your first hand experience.

My next question to you, since when we did the sea trial and then starting it yesterday and today by pulling the knob out, have I damaged or hurt the shift linkage in any way?! I know the Cobra's in particular have to have the shift linkage set correct. Did I hurt it by doing it the other way, in your opinion?

Thank you again for the reply and your first hand knowledge!!
 

Apathetic

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
87
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

Thank you again. You have really helped with my concerns with the shifter and throttle.

Model # 987526
Serial # T00756837
This set is for the drive, it's a King Cobra, 1.50:1 ratio drive.

I provided the numbers off of my valve covers with the OMC decal and it said King Cobra if I understood Don S correctly. The owners manual for the drive unit that came with the boat also said 351 King Cobra. Naturally I could be wrong, as you can tell I/O have me befuddled.

The great thing is that thanks to you and your experience I know how to operate the shifter correctly.

You have no idea how much I appreciate your help and everyone else's here. I sincerely thank you for taking the time to help on what must be pretty dumb questions.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,581
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

OK..I could easily be mistaken.

Typically, the model number of the King Cobra had the first 3 digits in cubic inches rather than in liters and carb size.

Does your boat have through hull exhaust?
 

Apathetic

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
87
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

So, basically 584 of the model number stands for 5.8 litre (naturally) and 4 being 4 bbl carb?

Thanks.
 

Apathetic

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
87
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

No, if you mean like the Formula and Scarabs did, no. You could very well be right, as you can see I'm completely new to stern drives (though I was very aware of the "bad" reputation Cobra drives have and the difficulty in finding parts).

I could scan a picture of anything if you like and it would help. The engine must be, as Don S has said, a replacement. I have a decal that it is a Jasper remanufactured or rebuilt engine. I do not have any paperwork with it though (the rebuild/repower). The transom has OMC King Cobra and the hydraulics have King Cobra on them. The "Operation & Maintenance Manual" is definitely "OMC KingCobra Stern Drives 351 OMC King Cobra." I don't know if that helps, though.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

OMC_SD86-93.gif
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

bruceb58 said:
If you have the 5.8L Ford engine, I don't believe you have the King Cobra...just the standard Cobra.


OMC just flat loved calling drives "King Cobra"
First there was the King Cobra with the dog style clutch. Very common.
Then there was the seldom seen King Cobra with the cone clutch. (Not the newest version)
Then there is the latest version from the mid 90's during the joint venture with Volvo Penta (using the Volvo cone clutch) and OMC decided to use the decals saying....... You guessed it, "King Cobra"
The good news is it's not confusing at all :=
 

Apathetic

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
87
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

Here is a picture of the engine. The Jasper decal is pretty clear, too. Anything that stands out that needs to be done just from the picture? I checked the oil to make sure there was no water mixed after the sea trial. The carb was in tune, etc.

aa461647.jpg
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,581
Re: Please help with stupid and damaging questions

Yes...I was under the impression that all King Cobras were cone clutch until now. After doing a bit of research tonight I see that is all not true.
 
Top