Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

[302suawdust]

Hi all,
Great forum! I have lurked here for along time absorbing tons of info. Anyway. I have a 25HP Johnson (25R69D). I wanted to adjust the points yesterday but I found out that on the one set I could not adjust the screw enough to get the 20thou gap (could only get about 5thou max) that I need. Is it OK to file the points to get enough gap? Maybe it is time for a new set as well as some new condensers? I do not know the history of the engine so keep that in mind. FWIW I did a spark test and found what I would call a week spark. Could only get about 1/8" to 3/16" gap to spark. The engine runs OK but is a little hard to start.

Thanks,
Ian

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

you either have the wrong points or installed wrong.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

I wanted to adjust the points yesterday but I found out that on the one set I could not adjust the screw enough to get the 20thou gap (could only get about 5thou max) that I need. Is it OK to file the points to get enough gap? Maybe it is time for a new set as well as some new condensers? I do not know the history of the engine so keep that in mind. FWIW I did a spark test and found what I would call a week spark. Could only get about 1/8" to 3/16" gap to spark. The engine runs OK but is a little hard to start.

Thanks,
Ian

No way you would file 15 thou off a set of points....or even use a file at all to "adjust" the gap.
I am not sure what you mean by "I could not adjust the screw enough".
There is a screw that you loosen, but never in my experience a screw that you use to do the adjustment; sounds like you may not be completely sure how to adjust these points.

You can do a search on this and should find a thread in this forum that gives a good description. Others will weigh in on this also.

Do you have a service manual for this motor? That question/suggestion will also come up.

 

[302suawdust]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

It is possible that they are the wrong points.... I am just curious assuming they are the correct points how they could be installed wrong. From what I see (and the limited knowledge I have about these things) There does not seem to be to many options in instalation however I will take a closer look tonight. FWIW Each set looks identical. The one set is fine. I am sure I am missing something obvious here but I am not sure what. I am tempted to buy the rebuild kit but I would like to know what is up with the gap first.

Thanks for your thoughts / ideas.

Ian

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

Rebuild kit? Not sure what you mean.
Can you describe the procedure that you used to reset the points?

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

Are you sure the cam follower is at the high point on the cam? That's the only thing I can think of that would keep you from setting it to .020.

 

[302suawdust]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

No way you would file 15 thou off a set of points....or even use a file at all to "adjust" the gap.
I am not sure what you mean by "I could not adjust the screw enough".
There is a screw that you loosen, but never in my experience a screw that you use to do the adjustment; sounds like you may not be completely sure how to adjust these points.

You can do a search on this and should find a thread in this forum that gives a good description. Others will weigh in on this also.

Do you have a service manual for this motor? That question/suggestion will also come up.

I will answer the last question first. Manual was ordered two days ago and my name is on the reserve list for a different one in the local library. I agree the Manual is a good idea. I know I should slap my fingers for jumping ahead without the manual but here I am anyway.

You are correct in me not completely sure how to adjust these points ). However on my set there is a screw that gets loosened and then another screw that is eccentric (like a cam) that you can turn to adjust the point gap. Once the gap is correct you tighten down the first screw to lock it all in place (I think this is how it works anyway?).

I use the search lots... and I like it ) However I did not find much that applied to this engine.

Thanks again,
Ian

 

[302suawdust]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

Rebuild kit? Not sure what you mean.
Can you describe the procedure that you used to reset the points?

http://www.jmsonline.net/CONTACT-SET-OMC-560.htm

You can also buy a set that has both sets of contacts and two condensers.

 

[302suawdust]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

Deleted

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

http://www.jmsonline.net/CONTACT-SET-OMC-560.htm

You can also buy a set that has both sets of contacts and two condensers.

Ok, got it; a tune-up kit.
Never heard it called a rebuild kit.
Gotta get out more...

 

[302suawdust]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

Ok, got it; a tune-up kit.
Never heard it called a rebuild kit.
Gotta get out more...

My terminoligy is probaly not correct....

Thanks for hanging in there with me.

Just a thought. Is it possible that the felt on the crank side of the points could be so worn down that it causes the points to be too close?

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

I will answer the last question first. Manual was ordered two days ago and my name is on the reserve list for a different one in the local library. I agree the Manual is a good idea. I know I should slap my fingers for jumping ahead without the manual but here I am anyway.

You are correct in me not completely sure how to adjust these points ). However on my set there is a screw that gets loosened and then another screw that is eccentric (like a cam) that you can turn to adjust the point gap. Once the gap is correct you tighten down the first screw to lock it all in place (I think this is how it works anyway?).

I use the search lots... and I like it ) However I did not find much that applied to this engine.

Thanks again,
Ian

Of course!
Bad comment from me earlier re: no screw to make adjustment.
I haven't actually done a set of points with an eccentric screw for a long time and didn't even think of that.... blanked.
Check CAT's post. The only things that would account for the problem you are having with getting 20 thou is if you are not on the high point of the cam with the follower for that set of points/ somebody messed up that screw/ or, as TD said, maybe the wrong points.

 

[F_R]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

OK, just exactly what happens when you turn the eccentric screw? Does it go "past" the point of opening the points gap and then toward closing them up again? Or does it start opening the gap and then stop and you can't turn it any more?

The eccentric screw is exactly that--a screw. If you turn it in far enough, the head bottoms out and you can't turn it any farther. In that case, back it off a turn and start over.

Yes it is possible that the fiber rubbing block is worn down too far to open them. If it is worn that badly, check the cam surface for rust, or maybe the cam is cracked.

 

[302suawdust]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

OK, just exactly what happens when you turn the eccentric screw? Does it go "past" the point of opening the points gap and then toward closing them up again? Or does it start opening the gap and then stop and you can't turn it any more?

The eccentric screw is exactly that--a screw. If you turn it in far enough, the head bottoms out and you can't turn it any farther. In that case, back it off a turn and start over.

Yes it is possible that the fiber rubbing block is worn down too far to open them. If it is worn that badly, check the cam surface for rust, or maybe the cam is cracked.

Hi,
When I turn the screw the the gap will open and close and open and close until the screw bottoms out. At the high/far point my gap is only about .005-.007". As far as rust/corrosion it all looks quite pristine in there considering the age. I will snap a picture tonight.

Seems like quite a silly problem but I am quite stumped.

 

[302suawdust]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

Are you sure the cam follower is at the high point on the cam? That's the only thing I can think of that would keep you from setting it to .020.

Doh! Sorry for waisting all of your time. This is exactly what I was doing or rather not doing.

Thanks everybody for helping me work through this.

Now If I still can not get a strong spark once I adjust things (properly) what would be the likely culprit? The condensers? The coils? The plug wires?

Thanks again,
Ian

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

Now If I still can not get a strong spark once I adjust things (properly) what would be the likely culprit? The condensers? The coils? The plug wires?

Yes. That's the reason I usually replace all of them while I have it all apart, particularly if I don't know how old the components are to begin with. 60 bucks max, and I don't have to look at it ever again.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

here is the correct procedure. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=294072

 

[302suawdust]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

here is the correct procedure. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=294072

Yep it is a great thread. Read it several times before and after encountering my bonehead problem. It does leave out one detail though. It does not mention to make sure the cam is in the correct position when setting the point gap although one of the pictures does indirectly indicate where it should be (it is all so clear now :redface: ).

Boils down to one thing. Somebody created fool proof instructions. I just became a better fool :redface:

 

[CATransplant]

Re: Point Gap on 1969 Johnson 25hp

No worries. You have it right now. If all the folks here wrote down all the errors they had made working on outboards, this site would need lots more data storage capacity.

Of course, I, personally, have never made any bonehead mistakes.