Poor new stereo performance

[lushka16]

I just bought this stereo for my boat. I understand that it's cheap and by a no name company, but it was supposed to be an improvement over the existing stereo, which was 20 years old and also cheap and no-brand.

I'm having two problems with it:
1) Every few seconds, the voltmeter dips down to about 11V, actuating some "power saving mode" on the stereo and interrupting the music. The only time this doesn't happen is when the motor is on (to clarify - the problem still happens, but the alternator overcomes the dip, thus the "power saving mode" does not kick in). This isn't too good when I'm just floating around or docked. This problem gets worse and more frequent when the volume is higher.

2) The sound quality is horrendous. I've owned cheap stereos before, and while they're nothing to write home about, they certainly did not crackle every time the volume was raised over a whisper.

Could both my problems be due to improper wiring?

 

[jtexas]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

I suspect two problems:
1. a leak in your hull, and
2. faulty charging system.

 

[lushka16]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

I suspect two problems:
1. a leak in your hull, and
2. faulty charging system.

There is no leak in my hull, unless that was a joke that totally went over my head.

I actually replaced the alternator on Monday, yet the problem persists.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

Sorry, just sounds like a bilge pump cycling on & off. And down to 11V seems a very large amount..........I guess you've verified that no other devices are on when the voltage dip occurs? Hard to imagine the wiring that would cause that. Do you have any other electronics (depthfinder, gps) where electrical noise might show up?

 

[lushka16]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

Sorry, just sounds like a bilge pump cycling on & off. And down to 11V seems a very large amount..........I guess you've verified that no other devices are on when the voltage dip occurs? Hard to imagine the wiring that would cause that. Do you have any other electronics (depthfinder, gps) where electrical noise might show up?

Aaah ok, that does sound like a bilge pump, but no.. definitely not that.

I've isolated the stereo to ensure that it is indeed causing the problem.

Here is one possible thought: I've spliced the 12V constant (memory) and the 12V together, because there is only one line coming into the area (a 12V constant). Is it possible that there is too much draw from that one line? Maybe I should run another 12V line?

I've uploaded a video to youtube of the voltmeter, it will be up shortly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muEq4lXrCOk

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

Most electronics have a low voltage shut down and it is in the 11 volt range. It's very likely a wiring problem, not a stereo problem. A brand new alternator won't do much for a battery that won't hold a charge. Measure battery voltage when the power save mode activates. Measure directly on the posts -- not the clamps. Then measure at the clamps. If there is a difference the clamps/posts need cleaning. If you are reading 11 volts there, you have a bad battery or something is dragging it down quickly. If you measure 12.6 volts (engine off) the battery is up to snuff and the problem(s) lie further upstream.

 

[lushka16]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

Most electronics have a low voltage shut down and it is in the 11 volt range. It's very likely a wiring problem, not a stereo problem. A brand new alternator won't do much for a battery that won't hold a charge. Measure battery voltage when the power save mode activates. Measure directly on the posts -- not the clamps. Then measure at the clamps. If there is a difference the clamps/posts need cleaning. If you are reading 11 volts there, you have a bad battery or something is dragging it down quickly. If you measure 12.6 volts (engine off) the battery is up to snuff and the problem(s) lie further upstream.

Great idea. I'm actually running on my old battery, because I drained my brand new one when my alternator went. It's charged up now, so I'll throw it in and report back.

*no change whatsoever.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

wiring the memory constant on and normal +12V feed together is not a problem. The memory line takes so little power a good battery would power it for months. In fact, my boat is wired that way.

 

[lushka16]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

wiring the memory constant on and normal +12V feed together is not a problem. The memory line takes so little power a good battery would power it for months. In fact, my boat is wired that way.

Before I saw your message, I added an additional wire for the 12V memory, and a switch for the 12V constant (because otherwise the backlight stays on).

As expected, no change.

 

[drewpster]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

Boy! I am glad you posted I almost bought one of those. Sounds to me like you got a bad radio. The dip in the voltage is a bit of a concern, but I still feel like it is the radio causing the problem.

 

[lushka16]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

Boy! I am glad you posted I almost bought one of those. Sounds to me like you got a bad radio. The dip in the voltage is a bit of a concern, but I still feel like it is the radio causing the problem.

I sent the company an email, I guess I'll see what they say. The fact that they have a "Request RMA" link leads me to suspect that they products are commonly crap.

 

[Bindernut]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

The shutdown problem is definitely caused by your supply voltage dropping down to 11v. Car audio (marine too) is designed to run at 13.8v (as an average of 12v when not charging and 14-15v when charging). Many head units, even high-end brands, will turn off at around the 11v mark...but should run just fine on 12v.

The low voltage can cause the lousy sound too...not enough voltage to run the amplifier circuit. Low voltage causes "clipping" to start at lower volume settings. Clipping is what you hear as crackling distortion.

Another thing that can cause the drop-outs is too small gauged wiring to the head. What size wire are you running? I'd run 14ga minimum to the deck...12 preferred, especially if it's a long way from the battery to the deck. Small wire + higher current draw from a higher powered deck = voltage drop along the wire. The higher the current draw, the larger the voltage loss.

One more thing. I'm assuming you've got the speaker wiring hooked up correctly too. The units nowadays usually make things pretty foolproof with darn near every brand using a common color code. Also, most new decks will not tolerate common ground speaker wiring...they need to have each speaker's wiring separate from each other and separate from the power ground too. (two wires to each speaker, no speaker negative leads tied together or tied to the power ground).

Good Luck!

 

[jlinder]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

Quick question - is the problem aggravated when you turn the volume up? Does it improve with very low volume? If so it would indicate bad supply wiring.

How much power does the unit draw (or what is the rated wattage), what guage wire are you using, and how long is it to the battery?

If you power the unit from jumper cables does the problem go away?

What about the ground? Is it good?

 

[lushka16]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

Thank you all for your responses.

I am not sure of the guage of the wiring. I used the wiring from the old head, which was installed in the factory. My rough estimate is 16-20 guage. I would also estimate that there is 10 feet of wiring to the first common 12V wiring point. My dad used to be an electrician, and I asked him about that aspect of the wiring, and he said that it ought to be ok. I think I will still buy some 12g wire and wire it straight to the battery.

I did not know about not wiring two speakers together. I noticed that when I wired the speakers, the two back and the two front were wired together. I wasn't familiar with this setup, but I assumed that it was done for a reason and left it alone. I will rewire this.

The problem is VERY aggravated when the volume is turned up. It's ok when the volume is low, though sometimes it gets moody and the problem arises.

I have not checked how the unit works if it is powered from jumper cables, but I will actually check that first before I rewire anything. I will also disconnect all the speakers, and reconnect just one speaker before doing so. That way I can eliminate the speaker wiring as a potential cause of the problem.

I'm not sure if the ground is good, I can only assume it is because it powered the old stereo.

 

[jlinder]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

The fact that the problem gets worse with the volume up tends to indicate that the voltage drops when you draw more current, and that is bad wiring or connections.

If you have a voltmeter that you can use to monitor the voltage while the radio is running that would be a big help.

It would be interesting to measure the voltage between the neg. of the radio and the neg. of the battery, then do the same measuring the voltage between the 12v to the radio and the battery pos.

These readings would give you the voltage drop on each side (neg and pos). These readings should be close to zero. Then note if these voltages go up when the volume goes up.

 

[beerfilter]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

While your off-brand radio could be a turkey,you most likely have issues with your 12 volt wiring,and/or,speaker wiring.

16 gauge is marginal on a modern head unit,especially if it is longer than 15-20 feet,same for the ground wire.
Make sure the terminal connections are tight and clean.
12 gauge is a good idea,just remember to also replace the ground with the same size.
No problem wiring the power and memory to the same lead,as long as it is a constant voltage.

Make sure your speakers are not wired in parallel,causing a 2 ohm load (assuming you have 4 ohm speakers..)on your head unit.
The lower resistance causes excessive draw on your headunits I.C. amplifiers,which combined with a marginal supply/ground wiring,will cause voltage drop and shutdown of the head unit.

Modern headunits with I.C. amps will clip horribly when fed a 2 ohm load,overdraw the power supply,and,eventually burn out themselves.
If you need to power 2 ohm speakers,get a quality audio amplifier that is rated 2 ohm stable.

Please make sure your speakers are wired correctly,and,are the proper resistance( 4 ohm),before running supply wires to the head unit.
If the 16 gauge wire is getting voltage drop due to excessive draw,
the head unit is shutting down due to low voltage,before the internal power supply and/or I.C. amps can burn out completely.

If you run larger wire to the head unit before correcting the speaker wiring,you may just let all the magic smoke out!

 

[Bindernut]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

...
I did not know about not wiring two speakers together. I noticed that when I wired the speakers, the two back and the two front were wired together. I wasn't familiar with this setup, but I assumed that it was done for a reason and left it alone. I will rewire this.
...
I have not checked how the unit works if it is powered from jumper cables, but I will actually check that first before I rewire anything. I will also disconnect all the speakers, and reconnect just one speaker before doing so. That way I can eliminate the speaker wiring as a potential cause of the problem.

I'm not sure if the ground is good, I can only assume it is because it powered the old stereo.

Yup, get the speaker wiring straightened out first. That will most likely be the cause of the poor sound...hopefully the outputs in the deck haven't been damaged. Doing just one speaker at a time is a good plan too.

Even if that cures the problem, I'd still upgrade the power supply wiring to at least 12ga size. Would you care to post the brand/model and what it claims to have for output power? 50Wx4 etc...

 

[lushka16]

Re: Poor new stereo performance

Success! The problem was with the way the speakers were wired.

Both rear speakers have a common wire, which I did not realize. Attaching 2 outputs to the same wire is what caused both bad problems. The same was true for the front.

I've removed one set of outputs, and everything works fantastically. I can turn it up as loud as I want, and the sound output is just fine.

Thanks a lot for the help!