Poor running '75 15HP

[Joe Dirt]

Well, I took out my beloved fishing boat this past weekend, for the first time this year. Over the winter, I rebuilt my carb because of the same running issues I had in the fall, but it was the last trip of the season, so I just winterized to work on it this spring. But, it was doing the same thing this spring even after the rebuild.

Started difficultly, and really wouldn't idle. I had to start it, throttle up, and kick it in gear. Once going, it would run on what sounds like one cylinder- and in a deep tone. If I throttled down and tried to throttle back up, it would stall- just as it would if I tried to run at idle.

Over the course of my 10 minutes lake excursion, I had 4-5 "blips" of hope, where it sounded like it wanted to go for a split second stutter, but never did, and never went beyond the 1/2 throttle thing.

So I pulled the plugs when I got home, and one is burning well. The other was fouled, and had oil all over the insulator, tip, etc., so I doubt it was firing.

I figure that since the plug is fouled, it isn't a fuel delivery issue since one is firing, and there is fuel getting to the other one. I'm hedging either a bad plug, or a bad ignition coil?

I have a video of the offending motor if it helps. I'm a car guy, and not so familiar with outboards, just looking for some advice and direction...

Thanks!

 

[mikesea]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

Hey Joe,your eng.is the older 15 that has points and condensers.Remember them.Get a flywheel puller ,pull flywheel and treat the eng.to some new parts.They can be ordered on this website.After 76 it was electronic.They do sell conversion kits to eliminate the pts.cond.but I heard mixed reviews.You may also have a bad coil,dont recall the $$,but if the eng has been good,you may want to go for the whole ball of wax,coils,pts.condensor,then you know your new all around

 

[Joe Dirt]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

I was thinking about doing that, I have 2 coils coming (I got them at a good $ of $15 each at the local marine supply place) and new plugs today, but maybe I'll throw everything in. It ran great before this started last fall, and it came up immediately the next trip after about a 2 week layoff from the lake.

Is there a tune-up kit with the points and condensors in it together? Or part numbers? I have the service and parts manual for the motor, any idea if there are parts that have superseded and/or are of better vintage to use?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Joe Dirt]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

Not sure if this helps, but here is a cell phone vid of the offending motor. I'm running it as hard as it'll go...

If you scroll back in my photobucket album after the vid plays, you can see the coils that are in there.

 

[Joe Dirt]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

Here are some pics, I think this may have something to do with it...

Top:

Bottom:

Lo and behold in a '75 Non CD ignition:

So, first order is to get some plugs that are actually FOR this motor. I have new coils, and I ordered new points and condensors, I figure why not go through it and freshen some stuff up...

Question is, Champion UL81J's or NGK B7HS's? I don't troll, so it'll be for moving from one spot to another, all over the throttle range. I really think it was plugs now, my Dad said that last year in Canada when he pulled the plugs to check poor running and sprayed them with intake cleaner to clean them off, it ran good for a little while before the fouled soon after.

Can any of these plugs be had at Napa, AutoZone, or the like? I can't even get anything to show up on their websites, and I'd like to get them for the weekend, so the iboats site is out of the running for now...

Thoughts?

 

[Joe Dirt]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

So I replaced the points, condensors, plugs, and coils- now she won't start.

I don't think there is spark getting to the coils. I pulled the flywheel 4 times now to check stuff, and tried to get the points as tight as I could. They are gapped at .020 to .023 and I have new NGK plugs in there, since nobody had the Champions in stock. Everything is hooked up, what am I missing?

I even tried using my old coils and plugs and nothing fired, so I'm sure it has to be something with the points, condensors, or magneto.

Help!

 

[ezeke]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

The only spark plugs listed for your model are the Champion
UL81C or L86C, but suit yourself; If you put too long a plug in there, the piston will hit it.

Read some of LeeRoy Wisner's free on-line publications which will help a lot when you rebuild the carburetors and clean up your fouled high speed jet.

Go to the following link, then scroll down to the 9.9HP and 15HP sections.

http://www.wisnersinc.com/Fishing Information/Fishinginfo_main.html

BTW, I think you need a decarb now: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=158076

 

[mikesea]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

Joe,disconnect your stop button,then check your spark.Be sure the wiring to the button isnt grounding somewhere. Let us know.

 

[Joe Dirt]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

I'll do that, Mike...

Help me out- can I fry it by just unhooking a plug and holding the boot against the end of the plug? I know on my CD ignition 79 I had to be careful with what I did...


ezeke:

I am running the NGK B7HS plugs right now. I also had the old plugs in there trying to fire it.

The problem is- it ran on one cylinder due to a fouled plug up until I tore it apart last night to replace the points, condensors, and coils.

Now the electric start turns and turns and turns, but makes no effort to sputter to life.

Even if it was a decarb issue, it would still turn over being that there was merely 24 hours between the last time it ran and now- and now it doesn't start at all.

I do have wisners book printed out, which is where I initialy got the NGK info... but my also-owned service/parts manual is for my old '79 so it does not cover the points and condensors.

I can not find the U81J plugs locally, I need to order them. Napa even said no.

I tossed on my '64 Johnson 3 HP that was in the basement winterized for 6 years, pulled the plugs and cleaned them, put oil in the lower unit, gassed 'er up and she started on the 2nd pull. I'll use this one until I figure out the 15. Something must be unhooked or something- nothing else can explain the runs (albeit crappy- see the video above) switch parts, and now it won't start at all. I even had the same plugs in there, and none of the bottoms were hit so I know it didn't contact a piston, the B7HS measure up and are cross-referenced in the book- I know people that run them with no issues whatsoever.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

BRP is the authorized source for spark plug recommendations and for its dealerships and certified repair personnel. The only part number currently specified for your motor is #0386035, which is a Champion L86C.

The parts manuals on the BRP online store are set up so that when the line item is identified, clicking the magnifying glass will give the current superseding recommended part number.

http://shop2.evinrude.com/ext/index.aspx?s1=bfab6d23b7421863cf9edbbde373d841

 

[Joe Dirt]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

Thanks for the info- I've got some on order...

So question is- last year, with the L77JC4's in there, it ran great until teh plug fouled. I would pull them out, spray them down, and it would run again until the plug fouled (usually a day or so) but I only had it out 3 times last year.

What are the plug differences internally? I'm a noob with points motors- as far as diagnosing them. Why did it run on the L77's?

Ideas as to why it won't fire at all post rebuild? I really think if I put the other plugs in, it still wouldn't start unless some other "x" factor was fixed...

Is there something under the flywheel that could be preventing it from starting at all? Points moving? Seemed a bit archaic under there- adjust the points and hold tehm with tension with only a little washer under the screw- the Comdensors had lock washers holding them down, yet the points didn't. If the points move and have no gap- will a motor start? Like I said- I'm new to points. I've never had to take apart my '64 Johnson, and I'm only 34...

 

[Xcusme]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

Is there something under the flywheel that could be preventing it from starting at all? Points moving? Seemed a bit archaic under there- adjust the points and hold tehm with tension with only a little washer under the screw- the Comdensors had lock washers holding them down, yet the points didn't. If the points move and have no gap- will a motor start? Like I said- I'm new to points. I've never had to take apart my '64 Johnson, and I'm only 34...

Joe, Explain EXACTLY, what you did when you replaced the points, and condensers. Explain how you set the point gaps.

 

[Joe Dirt]

Re: now NON running '75 15HP

Re: now NON running '75 15HP

Pulled the flywheel off

Visually noted the position of the points/gap for approximation

Removed the screw holding the 3 wiring connectors to one of the points.

Removed the condenser mounting screw, removed condenser

Removed the point mounting screw, removed point

Installed new point into bracket hole, grounded the end against the shaft, and lightly tightened the mounting screw

Took feeler gauge of .020 and spread point out so I sould slip the gauge inside. I flexed the point against the shaft and used the spring pressure to hold the feeler gaude inside while I tightened the point mounting screw down

Removed and reinserted feeler gauge to check gap

Mounted new condenser, screwed in

Reattached three wires to the point.

-Repeated other side for other point and condenser

Lined up flywheel with key and slipped it back down onto the shaft

Tightened flywheel to 5o ft lbs. with torque wrench and holding wheel still with screwdriver through tooth and against electric starter bolt (is there a better way for this- even to remove it- I did it the same way)

Removed my coils

Put coils back in, mounting ground wite to the outside of the coil, between the lock washer and the coil.

Closed everything up and nada- nothin but turning starter and flywheel.

Here is a pic underneath- new point and condenser on the left, not yet changed on the right:

Here is a macro of my point gap:

Coils:

Either I'm missing something, or something is messed up. I even uninstalled everything, put in the old coils, old plugs, old points, old condensers that it ran like crap on, on one cylinder (in the video above) and it still won't start- does the same thing it did with all new parts- electric start turns and turns, but makes no attempt to start. I know it's getting fuel, I can smell that, I don't think it's getting spark. If it was getting spark, it would at least sputter. I left one plug wire hooked up, and tried holding the other plug wire by the end of the plug while starting as Mike suggested, and nothing jumps or arcs.

Did I break something? This is driving me crazy...

Thanks for the help, guys, I really appreciate it... I want to fix this one myself, not take it in- it's got to be something stupid simple, and as a matter or principle I need to win. Ha ha!

 

[jbjennings]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

Joe,
When you set the points,did you turn the crank until the highest point on the cam where it says "top" was right underneath the rubbing block on the point?
If not, that could be your problem. Also, is that the old coils in your pic? They sure don't look real sporty... You can bet it's something simple, so keep looking. Have you looked at the ends of the plug wires where they attach to the coils for corrosion? Have you pinched any of the kill wires?
Good luck,
JBJ

 

[dimock44]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

Joe
Did you check the driver coil under the fly wheel? Refer to Leroy Wiesners page. I seem to remember reading about a driver coil there for 74-76

 

[mikesea]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

Joe,I think your picture tells it all.Both sets of points are open,only the one that is in the center of the 'TOP"should be open.Thats where you set the points.You need the rubbing block from each set to align with the "o"in top for precise setting at 020

 

[Joe Dirt]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

And thus why I take pics when I do this stuff...

So how exactly do I set them? Do I rotate the assembly, set to .020 when the rubbing block is at "top" then rotate the other one over? Will the first one be closed until it gets to "top" again?

Like I said- I didn't have a manual, so I was flying my the seat of my shorts on this one. I'll have to open her up again and set them according to directions here- I was unaware of the "top" setting...

Also- those are the new coils...

 

[Xcusme]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

Joe, The reason I asked to explain exactly, your procedure to replace the points etc, was to see if you had rotated the point 'rub block' until it aligns with the crank key way when you made your point gap settings. Since you didn't mention it , I assume you didn't , that's why you don't have spark and she won't run.

BTW, congrats on the use of your cameras' Macro mode for the closeup pics. Most folks don't know about the camera function and post fuzzy pics.

 

[Joe Dirt]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

I think you're right- I am going back down to try again in a few minutes. So I get one rub block directly over the crank key, set the point to .020, then rotate the other one there, and do the same thing? I take it the points will open and close as they make their way around the crank... I'm learning about points...

 

[Xcusme]

Re: Poor running '75 15HP

Yup, that's it...rotate crank to first point set. Align key to point rub block, set point gap. Rotate crank to second point set (180 degrees), align key with rub block and set gap...your done.

Be sure to put a couple of drops of light machine oil on the point cam wick (or replace it with new). Be sure both point sets have the keeper clip on their respective mounting posts too. Dress any wires so as not to make contact with the flywheel.