Possible the water pump is frozen?!?! Winter time operating :(

[GoldLS1]

Here's the story... I use my 87' 85hp Force as my duck boat transportation in big water w/ big loads. It has been pretty cold here in the 20s,30s, and bairly low 40s. There was snow on the ground since last saturday that still hasn't melted yet.
I ran the boat Saturday without a problem it was around 30 degrees. Got up early Sunday, it was 26 out. The boat fired right up, I let it idle a few minutes like always when it's cold. We took off and were a few hundred yards off shore when the temp buzzer started ringing. Killed the boat. Sat for about 10-15 minutes waiting for it to cool. Buzzer finally stopped, fired it back up and limped to shore.
A buddy of mine I've went hunting with for years always started his old merc up and if it wasn't pumpin water, he'd let it idle a few minutes, kill it, wait a few minutes, fire it back up and it would ALWAYS be pumpin (Seen it 40 or 50 times). We'll I thought the same. I fired it back up at the ramp (for the 3rd time) the exhaust ports were spittin water (like they always do). I thought maybe it was good. Instead of heading out, I did a few large donuts next to shore and the buzzer went off again. I figured I tried my luck enough and loaded the boat up and went home.
I saw the thread about the telltail a long time ago and never did it. Well I figure what better time than now. After a few runs to the stores it was done (very easy and a great write up btw... wish I would have been smart and did it long ago). Put the motor in a 15 gal tub... nothing. Left it idleing awhile... overheated again (buzzzzzzzer was ringing!). I'm not sure it was warm enough to unfreeze the possible ice inside. The lower unit was very cold where the pump sits... of course the exhaust a block were pretty hot.
So I'm stumped...

Questions:
1. I assume the impeller was froze up? (that sound right? If not, your guess to no water cause?)
2. What are the odds my impeller is still good after all that run time if it was frozen?
3. What is the best way to drain the water out of the motor so it won't freeze the pump for future reference?
4. Why does my force hate me... or is it the cold weather!!


Thanks in advance for your opinion/help!!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Possible the water pump is frozen?!?! Winter time operating

Since the water pump and water tube to the engine sit right in the exhaust path, after you ran the engine neither one would still be frozen. It is possible, however, that if there was ice inside the pump that either the drive key was sheard or the impeller was stripped around the time you started the engine.

In either case, bite the bullet and drop the lower unit. Replace the impeller as a matter of course. These engines are suopposed to be self draining but the water pumop is not. After running, when on the trailer, turn over the engine a couple of times to clear most of the water out of the pump

 

[SweeperForce]

Re: Possible the water pump is frozen?!?! Winter time operating

As long as your impeller is spinning the water it is pumping can't freeze. Moving water will never freeze. If you got ice in the water pump then you have a bigger problems. Check your thermostat and make sure it opens. IMHO I would remove the lower unit to inspect the impeller.
The best way to drain your motor is straight up and down(vertical) forces are self draining.

Hope this helps,
Tom

 

[GoldLS1]

Re: Possible the water pump is frozen?!?! Winter time operating

Thanks for the responses. I figured I should drop the lower and give it a look, but was hoping I didn't. Time is my biggest issue right now, that and the boat is at my dads 2hrs away. Maybe I'll just use the MudBuddy until seasons over (end of Jan). Then yank the lower off when I get the boat back to my house, have time to tear it down, and order the parts that I need at my leisure. I sure hate to pay a pricey mechanic for something that I could easily fix.
I guess mine didn't self drain. It's been through a few years of winter operation now and this is a first. Guess it was just one of those things I'll add turning over the motor to things to do after loadup.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Possible the water pump is frozen?!?! Winter time operating

Sounds like a lot of shallow water use??
The pump is supposed to be self draining if the passage is clear.
There is a pin hole that drains the water and allows the pump to prime.
Possible it's mudded up and not draining.The pickup tube and the motor could still have water in them and froze?
Flushing at home/yard after running can help stop the mud.

 

[GoldLS1]

Re: Possible the water pump is frozen?!?! Winter time operating

It's had it fair share of shallow running in it's day... however, we've been in deep water this year. I break out the mud buddy for the skinny water running!! It's been at least knee deep or more all year.

I'm still betting on ice. I guess when I break it apart, if nothing is there but broken parts, the ice did it! I'll post back up with the verdict. Can't wait to see my telltail work!! I might even snap some pics.

 

[GoldLS1]

Re: Possible the water pump is frozen?!?! Winter time operating

Well the good, the bad, and the still confused:

The Good - My dad ended up taking it to a mech during the week w/o me knowning. They changed the impeller. It shot a good hard solid stream out on Saturday (maybe a 3-4 footer out the side at idle). We hunted and the boat made a 10 mile round trip w/o issue. Loaded it up on the trailer, dropped the tilt, let it drain, fired it up for about 10-15 seconds, put the transom saver on and went home.

The Bad - Sunday morning put the boat in the water at 5:30am, it was 27 degrees. Fire it up, no water out the telltail. I let it run for about 30 seconds and killed it. Waited about 2-3 minutes and fired it up again. Water was coming out, but not NEAR the powerful stream of the day before (maybe 8-12 inches). I killed it again and my dad griped about it should be working. Long story short he fire it up about 4 more times and revved the motor, let it run for a few minutes, and it never had a good solid stream. Loaded it back up on the trailer and called it another lost day of duck hunting.

The Still Confused - What could be happening? Do I need to rig up a air hose to a set of boat ear muffs where the water hose connects and blow it out after every trip to ensure nothing freezes? The boat sits outside and due to all my dads toys it can't go in his shop and he won't move the cars out of the garage!!

Finally - There are 4 weap holes? on the underside of the top part of the lower unit. They were leaking out a nasty black oil like substance. The water also had black oil stains floating while it was in the water. They also came out the exhaust. What could these be from?!?! First time I've ever noticed them. It dripped enough to make silver dollar size black spots on the ramp too.

Last thought - The mechanics put on the bill that they checked the engine's compression when they did the impeller change. Any reason they would do that or need to do that? It said it was good at 140 (maybe they checked only 1 cylinder or just averaged them?!?!)