Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

Bry21317 · Jun 19, 2002

posted June 18, 2002 12:31 AM by bsoroion -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just two months ago I purchased a ski boat from a good friend of mine that has a 89 Force 150. He purchased the boat new and from day one he took meticulous care in maintaining the engine. However, after only three years of moderate weekend use, the motor literally disintegrated inside. Something to do with a misaligned piston design issue (or at least thats what the dealer told him). Fortunately for my pal, he was good friends with the service manager at the local boat dealer who installed a new upper unit with a Merc power head for an absolute bargain. Other than that one major issue, the motor has ran strong. Even after he stopped using the boat and it sat for three years (up until two months ago) the motor seems to be running great. Although, since Im writing this post I do have a question regarding the motor. Like I mentioned, the motor is running great, however Ive noticed that after the motor is fully warmed up it tends to stall at the idle speed. Specifically when trying to dock and switching into and out of gear (which makes it especially difficult to appear like you know what your doing in front of your fellow boaters). I tend to think that it might have to do with the carburetors needing adjustment. However, Im going to swap out the plugs next weekend and see if that makes any improvements. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this issue? I would like to hear them. Thanks.

Bry21317 · Jun 19, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

I had the same type problem with my 88 Force 125 HP on my Bayliner Cpari 19 Footer. The engine would pur perfect on the driveway with the muffs, but when it was in the water it wanted to stall out when it was put in gear. Well to make a long story short, I found it to be the cables causing the problem. Try this, look into your carbs with the throttle opened all the way up to full throttle. The butterflies should be basically flat, and completely open. Mine wouldn't do this, without the idle being set really high and incorrect. Once you get these set so that they do open all the way. I would then Sync the carbs, and recheck the linkage to the tower that goes up to the timing advance. Once this is done, then check to make sure that when you pull the throttle back to neutral that the cable has enough spring on it, to pull the timing tower back till the idle scre is pressed into the block. If this is not the case, remove the cable from the back of the engine, and tighten the spring loaded connector in there. You can do this by twisting it, and it will get really springy to the point that it will pull the tower back easy. This was most of my problem, with the idle at least. Then you could actually use the idle screw that is located at the bottom of the timing tower to increase or decrese the idle speed. Once i got this all worked out, on the muffs I now run about 2200-2300 RPMS, with no back pressure, in the lake idle is about 1000 -1100 RPMS. I wanted to make it a tad bit higher so I know it won't stall on me. I used to not beable to hardly pull in to the dock or trailer because it would cut off so much, unless i jammed it into gear very quickly. I would also recommend checking your timing. A trick to this is to pull all the spark plugs out to do this, the forc 125 hp for 88 is supposed to be set at about 28 degrees. The other thing I did do that made a good difference is I replaced the cheap Spark Plug caps with some from a motorcycle shop, that screw into the Spark Plug wire, these made the miss that it occasionally had go away. They were made by NGK. The plugs I am running are also the NGK BUXW(?) I think, I don't remember off hand, but they were recommended on here for that engine and they do work. I about forgot, I did as 12footer had said in other posts and Decarbed with a can of Sea Foams Deep Creep, from NAPA for about $5. This helped alot also. I also put on the Hustler HU1317AO Prop and Hub Kit 1a and now this boat will scoot like never before. This is why I am now happy with this Force Engine. It is like this has brought new life back to an old motor, that has always just ran, but now its like turned into a sports car compared to it as yugo before. Hope this helps you guys get yours running up to prime. Thanks, Bryan Cox MTU

scubaman67 · Jun 19, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

Thanks for the info bry. got three days off next week and I'll be spending all of them with my lady in the garage. I'll get back to you and tell you how it goes. thanks again....

BSOrion · Jun 19, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

Bry, Thanks for your insight. Like I mentioned in my previous post, Ive just got the boat two months ago and have only had it in the water twice. Im still running out old gas, which is probably contributing to the stalling problems at idle. Ill put new plugs in before the next outing (Champ UL18V). Ill also look into the carbs & linkage issue like you suggested. I am interested in a new prop. The one currently on now is the factory stock. You mentioned you put on a Hustler. Any particular reason why you picked that one? Ive been reading about props on the web and theres certainly no shortage of sales hype as to why one brand is better than the other. Thanks - Brian

chads15 · Jun 20, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

i ran champions in mine once.. was not that impressed. my force likes the NGK plugs better. just ran smoother.

revertmastec · Jun 20, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

BRy, Let me make sure I understand you correctly. Your motor is running between 2200-2300 rpms at idle with the muffs on. I'm no expert but is that not real high for sitting in the driveway. I have a 86 125 And with the muffs on at idle, I am about 800-900 rpms and in the water about 700. Am I too Low.

Bry21317 · Jun 20, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

Revertmastec, I am not sure, but I've set my idle a little higher, to make sure that it won't cut off in the water. I think it should run at higher RPMS on the the muffs, due to it not having any backpressure on the exhaust. If I put the engine in a huge tub full of water, with the muffs on it in the driveway it will idle at about 1000, due to the back pressure. Some other Expert could probably explain this to us better. This is just what I have found, and now mine runs awesome. When i put it in gear to go in "idle" its running about 800-1000, but when i'm not in gear just in neutral in the water, its at about 1000-1100. BSORION, The bad gas will make a difference to. I had that same problem for a while. Got it all burned out and now it will scoot. I have this engine on a 19 Foot 88 Bayliner Capri. Its pushing me about 40 MPH right now (Garmin GPS 12, Teleflex Speedo reads about 38), with 3 people on board and a full tank of gas. I have found that this engine really likes the NGK plugs to. They will make more of a difference than the Champion plugs. There was a post on this site about which exact ones to use, it is located at: http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000830 The Plugs were NGK BUHW that I am running in mine. The reason that I picked the Hustler Aluminum Prop, was because I read alot of the testimonials on their site, http://www.turningpointpropellers.com/ and it seemed that most clients were happy with it. I talked to their tech support a few times, and they were awesome in helping me get exactly what I needed for this engine, due to it being hard to find the correct prop for. It was said to allow you to stick better in the water in turns, well I had a Michigan prop on my boat, that never would hold me on these one or two turns even at about 20-25 mph, when trimmed out, now with the new Huslter Prop, I can stick to these turns without the prop coming out of the water at about 37. It just handles alot better to me. It does give a stronger get up and go, as my boat would never pull me right out of the water on the wakeboard, I'm 200 lbs, but now it will jerk me out of the water instead of me having to drag and wait for it to catch up to pull me out. I also liked the fact that you can also swap the props pretty easy, just the blade part, so I'm thinking of getting a 15 pitch in the future for about $60 to swap on, when all I want is low end for wakeboarding and stuff, and maybe a bigger one for cruising around for speed. Never know what might happen. Hope this helps you guys. Thanks, Bryan Cox

BSOrion · Jun 20, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

Bryan, Thanks for the info. Ill pick up a set of NGK-BUHW and try them out. I had read that post exchange a couple of days ago. I have the blue ignition set so Ill see how it runs at the top end. FYI my Force 150 is mounted on a 20 Arriva KJ. As it is the thing really scoots along. The first time we had it out last month we were topping out at 49 mph (two in the boat with ½ tank). And that was with the bad gas. I did find some info about the Hustler prop. I certainly like the price!!! Do you think that a 17 pitch is a happy medium for all around use? Brian

Bry21317 · Jun 20, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

Brian, I would think that it should be fine, the 17 I think will work OK for you. How fast does it get out of the water now? Will it pull you skiing or wakeboarding? What size do you have on there now? What RPMS are you running? What does it say the RPM range is on the sticker on the left side of the engine when looking at it from outside the boat? If your running in this range, I'd stay with whatever size you have on it now. For the Price of the Hustler Prop you can't go wrong. It nots like the others that are like $150 or more and then may or may not work great. I be it does fly, mine was running about 32 at first with bad gas and before all this work. Now it is back up to about 40, and has a few more little tweaks to really get it to roll some more. I am still only running about 4800 RPMs, I need to get it up closer to about 5400 I think. So I might try going to a 15 Prop. Thanks, Bryan Cox MTU

Bry21317 · Jun 20, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

One other thing. Make sure there is not an exhaust leak in the pee hole, so the exhaust gasses are leaking back into the cowling or this can also make you stall and run lean, so you have a better chance of damaging something. Thanks, Bryan Cox

revertmastec · Jun 21, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

bry, where did you purchase your husler prop from. Did you need a different thrust washer. In a earlier post you were having problems installing it. What was the problem? Thanks,

thinking of getting one

Bry21317 · Jun 21, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

The Problem was that they gave me the wrong Prop the first time. This was due to it having the M on the end instead of the O in the part number. This was because, the lower unit on the 88 Force 125 HP, was from OMC instead of Mercury as some were. This was the whole problem. I purchased mine form Boaters world. You can purchase it from their website, they allowed me to return 2, since they messed up twice on which one to give to me. I called Turning Points tech support when I had a question and they gave me a guy named Phil, from Phil's Prop shop in IL, they were awesome and really know about this engine and these props. If you have any questions I would recommned calling them at: 708-895-9800. They will help you get what you need. Thanks, Bryan Cox

revertmastec · Jun 21, 2002

Re: Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

thanks

Post about Force engines for scubaman, chads15, and Bsorion

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