question for lubedude

[tystick]

regarding recent thread "bilge oil".... I changed outdrive oil with 500 ml. mercruiser 80 -90 wt. and topped it off with 500 ml. of regular automotive 80-90 wt. gear oil. Is this okay or should i replace with 100% stern drive oil? What is the difference?

 

[Rhadley]

Re: question for lubedude

I would not mix these! I bought Mercruiser outdrive oil and it specifically says not to mix it with any other types of fluid. They can have different chemical makeups that can have adverse affects when mixed.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: question for lubedude

I agree with Rhadley, I have said before that the automotive regular gear lubes are not up to marine use. I also met with some replies that it was the same. (It is not). I would refill it with a synthetic gear lube, in this case the automotive SYNTHETIC gear lubes are fine. Use a GL 4, unless your outdrive specifies a GL 5. Some GL 5s will damage yellow metals, (brass), I do not know if there are brass parts in a lower unit or not so that is why I say this. If the oil says, GL4-GL5 then it is fine to use.<br /><br />Now, after aying all of that, I seriously doubt that if you just put a very small amount in to "top it off" Like just a few onces, you are probably ok. But you notice I said "Probably". I would still change it when I got a chance.

 

[tystick]

Re: question for lubedude

just curious as to why the automotive gear oil is not the same as marine? What issues could result from using a auto gear lube? <br />As far as what i did... it is about 1/2 mercruiser and 1/2 auto gear lube as i ran short.

 

[achris]

Re: question for lubedude

Under extreme load the automotive oils will break down and you'll end up with burnt gears and bearing. The next step after that is a housing full of metal shavings. For the extra couple of dollars do you really want to risk that sort of damage?<br /><br />Chris............

 

[Stan's Customs]

Re: question for lubedude

I've never seen anything but conjecture on the subject, and I'm curious too.<br /><br />I'd like to see some oil company specifications defining the differences between Marine 85/90 wt gear lube and automotive 85/90 wt gear lube. Notice I said oil company... not boat manufacturer...profit might slant the latter's reccomendation.<br /><br /><br />It's highly unlikely that any marine gear case is subjected to near the stress and heat that any truck , race car, or anythging else really is subjected to all day every day.<br /><br />As far as automotive 85/90 wt oil breaking down under extreme load...Heavy laden vehicles, work vehicles and so on operating in the southern states are subject to brutal heat and run for years ....more often than not without "ever" having the gear lube changed changed and hold up well. <br /><br />Heat being the big killer in any gear oil breakdown...seems to me a gear case surrounded by water all the time would have a tremendous advantage because it "has" to be a cooler environment. Most boats don't get used on a daily basis either...so it seems to me that a lesser grade of oil would suffice for marine use compared to automotive use if anything... <br /><br />But...If regular gear lubes of the same viscosity arn't up to marine use...boy... maybe we ought to use marine gear lube for automotive applications....<br /><br />All of the above would, of course, be "conjecture" on my part!<br /><br />Point being...<br /><br />I'd like to some real oil facts/specs/comparisons......not conjecture. High grade 85/90 wt marine gear lube "or" high grade 85/90 wt automotive gear lube.. has to be very similar, unless I'm missing something very <br />obvious! <br /><br />Of course that would be conjecture too!<br /><br />...Stan M.

 

[tommays]

Re: question for lubedude

number 1 car and truck trannys dont get water in there oil i have seen first hand that merc syn will do much beter with water than other oils i have used<br /><br />i rebuild land based gear boxs on wash down machinery and there syn oil does not like water at all even the ones rated at 7000 ft # of torque at 20 rpm dont take the beating my out drive does<br /><br />number 2 and outdrive has to put 100% of its power through 2 darn small right angle drives at much higher rpm than most work trannys get to get to the prop there is a far greater load on the upper gears than any equal auto app which gets to puts it power straight through the trans <br /><br />number 3 i can go to the merc dealer and get enough of the right oil(at 9.99 a bottel)i can by 3 and change my oil twice it would seam to be one of the cheeper parts of owning a boat<br /><br />number 4 feel free to use any oil you want so you can put a 5000 dollar outdrive at risk never mind your saftey to save the cost of putting in 17.00 dollars of the correct oil once a year<br /><br />tommays<br /><br />at least the disagrements about motor have some logic you wont see any oil manufacture recomend there standard lubes in a marine app they are made to different specs and they will recomend you use one made to the marine spec

 

[Bondo]

Re: question for lubedude

Just go with a full Synthetic,+ Don't Look Back...........

 

[Stan's Customs]

Re: question for lubedude

I question the validity of anything that I do not have specific information for,Tommays...this thread is not meant to rile anyone up just to get exactly that..."specificic information".<br /><br />Why?... because I have worked on every type of gear box imaginable in my 30 plus working years, from helicopters to lawnmowers. Industial engines to high revving performance engines and all manner of differentials ,pto's, gear boxes the list is endless.....Self employed business owner most of my adult life, I've learned to get to the bottom of things or pay the price..<br /><br />I agree that the outdrives are darn small for the application...however that is the case on many types of equipment. Nothing new there...and as far as oil holding up well with water in it....I've never seen any oil that did well with water in it...synthetic or otherwise.<br /><br />By the way I use what the manufacturer suggest always...unless I'm out in little Egypt somewhere and something else has to be used...<br /><br />I'd still like to know exactly what the differences are in these oils...once again I believe most would amazed at how little difference there is in the composition.<br /><br /><br />AS far as your first hand experience comparing the oils in out drives that have taken on water..I'd say that duplicating the circumstances and making an accurate analysis of any oil's performance from one damaged outdrive to another would be difficult at best. Things like amount or water , time operated , many other obvious factors would have to be considered.<br /><br />Once again this is not meant to start a fracus but to get down to actual oil comparisons...if that is even possible. <br /><br /><br />Respectfully...Stan<br /><br />PS..I'm very intersested in any factual comparisons that this post will generate, but due to a dear old family member's sudden decline in health I have to leave town..I will answer when I return.

 

[cmyers_uk]

Re: question for lubedude

Agree with Stan it is interesting ... But I can never understand why people bother trying to save a few $ and risk things rather than uses whats meant to be used. My Volvo manual states use either Volvos synthetic or Mobilube 1 SHC SAE 75W-90. Now I presume Mobilube is a car designed oil thats fit for purpose so clearly automotive oils are fine aslong as they have the right specifications. I always look at what the manufacturer states and unless I have a good reason I follow this advise.

 

[Buttanic]

Re: question for lubedude

I have used automotive gear oil in Merc I/O's for years and have never had any problems. I also take advantage of the lower price by changing it more often than Merc recommends which also helps catch any water contamination sooner.

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: question for lubedude

The difference will be the additives. Marine gear oils are made especially for marine use. Automotive gear oils generally do not contain the level of water dispersing, rust protecting, and corrosion inhibiting additives specifically needed for marine environments (water contamination).<br /><br />

Originally posted by Stan's Customs:<br /><br />I'd like to see some oil company specifications defining the differences between Marine 85/90 wt gear lube and automotive 85/90 wt gear lube. Notice I said oil company... not boat manufacturer...profit might slant the latter's reccomendation.

That would be proprietary information. You may gleam some idea via the oil's data and MSDS sheets, but it is unlikely you will find what level and what type of additives are in the oil. A detailed chemical analysis (not a virgin oil analysis) would be an expensive begining.<br /><br />

Originally posted by Lubedude:<br /><br />I would refill it with a synthetic gear lube, in this case the automotive SYNTHETIC gear lubes are fine.

The fact a gear oil is synthetic does not mean it is adequate for a marine environment. I am not aware that automotive synthetic gear lubes will outperform marine synthetic gear lubes in marine environments, or that they carry the necessary additives to combat possible water contamination.<br /><br />I would certainly suggest a marine synthetic gear lube over an automotive synthetic gear lube. I would also suggest not mixing marine and non-marine gear oils. Incompatible additive packages can sometimes cause harm. Following the manufacture's recommendation is your best bet.

 

[Peter J Fraser]

Re: question for lubedude

TheOilDoc is on the mark.<br />Usually a Marine oil will have a higher % of anti-oxidants for better corrosion prevention.<br /><br />Regards<br /><br />Peter

 

[Stan's Customs]

Re: question for lubedude

Good morning mariners...<br /><br />Many thanks to all who have posted and the comfortable air in which these opinions have been presented..<br /><br />Several references have been made to the cost of marine based lubes and why anyone would risk the health of their outdrive for the difference in cost.<br /><br />The cost of the lube is not really what I'm about. Granted it can be considerably more expensive to maintain your eqipment if you have several boats...and many of us do. <br /><br />It can be more expensive if you flush out a water contaminated gear drive and have to change the lube twice after you run it to get it totally free of milky residue...Or as the case may be as it was for me recently, have to reseal the drive anyway. (that's three gear lube changes in that drive when I'm done...) Then it's more than just a few xtra bucks and I'd rather it cost less...but still not really what I'm about.<br /><br />In this age of innovative marketing ploys and sometimes down right deceitful claims as far as what products actually are capable of....I just don't want to be one of the suckers that is born every minute ...(according to P.T. Barnum)....and be taken advantage of if I can help it. <br /><br />I may be getting taken advantage of when I pay the price for these marine lubricants....I just want to know if I am! (Just like I do when I pay "premium fuel" prices for "diesel" !) <br /><br />I can't hear the bell on the lead goat. I'm not going to run off the cliff just because he did.....and on the other hand I'll probably at the feed trough before he is.<br /><br /> If the value is really there I will " gladly pay" the difference for a superior product. <br /><br />Superior product...that's another issue. If superior is one tenth of 1 percent better than the standard lubes, then it is honest marketing....and barely superior. And I probably wouldn't pay one tenth of one penny extra for the difference in the products. I suspect it's like the additives in gasoline ...Techron etc. Or to a lesser extent the different additives in anti-freeze and the list goes on...hence the debate.<br /><br />Once again that is "conjecture" on my part.<br /><br />Looks like the distributors of these superior marine lubes would be so proud of them they would advertise some test results regarding the differences, etc. It's the other way around though ...any information is obscure and hard to find at best. <br /><br />I'm not talking about their secret formula either...I'm talking about why their product is better..a sales speil based on controlled testing or something...Not, it's just better...we think.<br /><br />I want to thank all again for their views and still would like to see some specific information if it is available.<br /><br />I have tried to make it clear that I "really " don't want to offend anyone with my questions and doubts...and apologize if they come out wrong and aggrivate someone. I'm not trying to do that all.<br /><br />I grew up in the west Texas oil fields...One old oil man told me when I was a kid, and thought I was a a gambler...."Son When you sit down at a poker table and don't see a sucker...You're It!"<br /><br /> He was right...and I believe the manufacturers would tell us more if their product warranted it, and we are suckers if we don't challenge the lack of information.<br /><br />Thanks and best regards too all...Stan

 

[Bondo]

Re: question for lubedude

Well Stan,<br />I'm pretty sure I understand Everything you've just said.........<br /><br />I Agree........<br /><br />I run Either Mobil 1 75W-90,<br />Or, Penzoil Full-Syn 75W-90,<br />Whichever of the 2 my local parts guy has on the shelf when I get there...........<br /><br />Back when I had a Water Issue, <br />My Fingers told me that the Syn oil will do Better, Longer, Than Any Dino oil I've ever used........<br />You can use Any oil you care too.......<br />Checking it Often, is Much More Important than What Oil you're using............<br /><br />Oil Engineer I'm Not.........<br />But,<br />I've had a Wrench in my hand for 40 years.....<br />And, I Trust what My Fingers Tell Me...........

 

[Stan's Customs]

Re: question for lubedude

Thanks Bondo..<br /><br />That Sir, is indeed an answer that I can relate to...<br /><br />"Experience" is the best teacher, my Father said many times before he passed on. I was 14 then...<br /><br />I have revised it for my children and now my grandchildren...<br /> It is the "only "teacher. <br /><br />My elderly Mother has said many times...<br /> "Mechanics are not made, they are born... and experience is what forges them into professionals."<br /><br />I believe she was making reference to my brothers who can barely gap spark plugs...among other things.<br /><br />Having said that, thanks for your evaluation...<br /><br />I believe your post wil be the answer I will take to heart. It has old school merit, and common sense dictates that what we see and feel is more reliable than anything else. In fact it is indeed the "specific information" I was searching for.<br /><br /><br />Very much obliged ...Stan

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: question for lubedude

Stan, you have a nice way with words that is refreshing (especially in an OIL related thread!)<br /><br />Well done, and thanks for the good read.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[KRS]

Re: question for lubedude

Did you actually write that an oil company would provide better information than a dealer? ummmmm, isn't the oil company making a profit too? I think they would like to sell more of an expensive product than less?!<br /><br />As for me, buy the best you can.

 

[Stan's Customs]

Re: question for lubedude

No sir....<br /><br /> I was trying to imply that oil companies probably make the same on the product whether it be for marine or automotive use. ( providing we are comparing apples and apples, synthetic vs synthetic for instance.) Therefore information from an oil company might be less biased.<br /><br />As for me...I also buy the best I can. Actually I buy the best there is.. because I can. But sometimes the best is not easily identified...since marketing tends to slant good judgement. The most expensive is not always the best, marine labeled or otherwise.<br /><br />Marine labeled products along with products for rv's etc..are notoriously expensive. I just want to be sure I'm getting what I'm paying for...not something a middle man slapped a label on and remarketed. That way I'm not being taken advantage of, and I've been a good steward of what I have. Which, incidentally, is why I have anything in the first place. <br /><br />Bondo was able to provide the "specific information" I was searching for. I have 30 plus years in the repair business (not boats) Bondo has 40. It is "sooo" good to find someone who has more experience to draw from.....that doesn't happen much any more.<br /><br />I believe your point was.. being cheap can be expensive, I agree...but so can the lack of knowledge.<br /><br />Thanks and best regards...Stan<br /><br />....and thank you for the kind words, Dunaruna.<br /><br /><br />I think your point is...being cheap can be expensive, I agree...but so can the lack of knowledge.<br /><br />Thanks and best regards...Stan

 

[Buttanic]

Re: question for lubedude

I posted this in another thread on oil and I am repeating it here because it goes along with what Stan's Customs has said his feelings are. <br /><br />Here is my problem with a lot of products that are labled "marine". In some cases the differences are obivous to the eye, either externally or upon disassembly but some are not. When they are not how do I know that it is not the same product sold for general use and that other than having been tested to meet marine specs and so labled there is no difference. There is a difference between testing a product to see if it meets a certain spec and labeling that it has and manufacturing a product to specifically meet a certain spec. 35 years boat experience both operating and maintaining them I found that in many cases the main difference is in the testing and labeling not the product.