ready to glass

[tallcanadian]

i know i've read many different styles of fibreglass, but have we decided what would be good for my stringers and also my transom. any help would be appreciated.
http://s146.photobucket.com/albums/r277/tallcanadiansboat/?sc=1&addtype=local

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: ready to glass

Well..... (grin here we go) epoxy or fiberglass resin.... your wallet may be the deciding factor.

We have hundreds of posts on these.

You look like you have made great progress!

 

[andy6374]

Re: ready to glass

It's your call as to using epoxy, vinylester, or polyester resin. Polyester isn't even in the same ballpark as epoxy and vinylester resin when it comes to strength and waterproofness. So I'd recommed vinylester or epoxy. For the simple reason that vinylester is very good and still reasonable priced (~$160 for a 5 gallon bucket) I use it over epoxy, plus epoxy takes sooo long to fully cure.

Now as to glass. I'd go with biax for the transom and stringers. Alternate layers of 1808 (0/+90) and 1808 (-45/+45) will make for the strongest transom and stringers. Still though, using just layers of 1708 (-45/+45) will make for a super strong transom as compared to just woven roven and glass mat.

I usually finish up with a layer of 1.5 oz mat to prevent print-thru of the 1708/1808 pattern.

I used overlapping (4",6",8") layers of 1708 over my transom with a finish layer of 1.5 oz mat. I then tabbed in 3 additional layers of 1708 at the hullsides/bilge transom joint.

Getting started

Transom and stringer knees all glass in

 

[tallcanadian]

Re: ready to glass

wow, thanks for the info. perfect pics by the way. she's coming along great. now to start the building. i want it strong.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: ready to glass

Just remember, the boat was originally constructed with polyester. Doing the repair with polyester will give you a rebuild that will last longer than you will ever need it to. Most mistakes are made in how the rebuild is done, not what resin was used. As long as there is no bare wood to wick water, you will be okay. The whole "Polyester is not waterproof" thing is crap. Gelcoat is tinted polyester resin, it does a decent job of keep water out.

Now, there is a precedent as far as which resin can pass water at the molecular level and at what rate, but I assure you, you will die long before enough water passes through polyester resin to rot wood. If the wallet allows, epoxy is the way to go due to its strength and bonding ability as well as ease of use. I love epoxy, but you do not NEED epoxy to get a safe, long lasting rebuild. Good luck...

 

[croSSed]

Re: ready to glass

Looks good! How did you get all the wood out of the stringer cavities in such a way as to leave the fiberglass that surrounded them intact?

TG

 

[tallcanadian]

Re: ready to glass

thanks for the info jasonj. appreciate it, i really do. i love your build by the way. the stringers, blanchebeachcraft, were that rotten and water logged that they just pulled out. the middle one, however was a bit of a challenge. it came out in long, rotten pieces. i thought that pic looked cool. lol

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: ready to glass

Good job cleaning it out TC. There is litle need to build a 100 year boat. IMHO, build cheap, safe and useful for the lenght of time you plan on having it.
My (abandoned) project

 

[Boomyal]

Re: ready to glass

Nova! I just went thru your abandoned project album. What a shame that you had the difficulties. It looked like you were going to have quite the craft.

When you used the 3M 90 on the glass, did it affect the wetting out and adhesion of the resin?

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: ready to glass

Boom, doesn't bother it at all. I only sprayed one side. I bought one of those "scrap" bundles of cloth on eBay, so it came in strange shapes. Laying out the cloth in rectangles, that don't fray, was perfect.
As I said on the website, I am not normally a quiter. But at my age and after my bout with the mold (which is in my lungs now also) I just had to call it quits. Learned alot about boats and myself. :/ a young friend bought the Mach2 and is going to finish her.
TallCanadian, keep at it, take pics. We are following your progress..

 

[tallcanadian]

Re: ready to glass

thanks to everyone for the comments. and yes nova ll i will keep up with the pics. the problem i have right now is getting my hands on some good fibreglass stuff. living in a small town isn't always a good thing. i'll have to send away for some products. i'm going to take a christmas break but will be starting rebuild in about two weeks. i'll keep you all posted. and keep the comments coming. it helps my sanity..lol.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: ready to glass

I started a response to this a few days ago, but the big storm blew into the NW and as I was typing my internet access went down, so did the power, I just got it back.

What JasonJ said about the resin is correct, for this type of repair you won't notice any difference between epoxy, VE or polyester, all three will work fine, the only difference will be in your wallet. Just make sure all the screw holes are sealed and there are no gaps in the laminate. Sand everything you are going to glass with 36 grit paper on a grinder, it WILL NOT fail or come off if you do.

When using polyester or VE always use mat as the first layer, you don't need to with epoxy though, and don't use cloth with VE or poly. Cloth has a very low strength to cost ratio when compared to roving or biax and will bond poorly when used with VE or polyester. Get some 1.5 oz mat, but any weight will work, some types of nitted or woven products come with matt attatched to them already, they work great, but may not conform to some shapes as well. Biax or roving will both work, and again, it's not going to make a difference in how long it lasts. Roving and mat are easy to find, even most Wal-Marts have them, the resin you find there will work too, but don't use the no drip extra thick type, it makes it hard to wet out the glass sometimes.

 

[andy6374]

Re: ready to glass

Depending on the quality of the mat, I find that 1708 can sometimes conform around corners easier than say 1.5 oz mat.

Whenever it gets tricky though, I ususally shread the mat and then it can conform to any wierd shape..

Ondarvr-
Have you had a problem with cloth with polyester or VE? I've used it before here and there, ususally when a layer(s) of biax is oversaturated with resin and the cloth takes care of the rest, however I've zero bonding issues.

tallcad-
I agree with ondarvr and JasonJ, it is really more about how the surface is prepped and how the glass is worked rather than the type of resin. I really wasn't trying to promote one resin over another. But....maybe I was a little. I've always used poly and just started using vinylester and I really like the way it wets things out. Vinylester is still very cheap compared to epoxy and not that much more than poly, so for it's additional strength's for various properties I think it work the extra $10 a gallon. That's not to say that if you repair your boat with poly it won't outlast your ownership of the boat. Previous repairs have been done in poly and I have full confidence that they will last for a very long time. The reason I wrote this response was to give you a sense that there was a consenus amongst the people who replied to the resin "debate", that yes it really doesn't matter what resin you use and that we all aren't sayind different things.

 

[tallcanadian]

Re: ready to glass

i appreciate all the info, andy and ondarvr. i'm learning alot and i appreciate it. after christmas i will be starting my rebuild. i need all the feedback i can get..lol. sometimes i think i'm just plain nuts for starting this but didn't have anything to lose. i love this boat and i think the time and effort is worth it.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: ready to glass

andy

Cloth is not used very much in boat building, part of it is due to cost, for the strength it adds to the layup, the cost is high, there are things it does very well though. The bonding issue can be seen in older repairs or construction. Many times you can easily grab the edge of the cloth and pull it off in sheets, and sometimes when you try to grind into to make a repair, the edges of the cloth will start to lift away from the rest of the laminate. As you continue to grind, the edge will continue to lift until what started as a small repair is 4 or 5 times larger than when you started. On some repairs it can be easier to pull (not grind) all of the cloth off and resurface the entire area rather than try to deal with the edge of it continuing to lift.

Cloth (along with poor surace prep) is one of the main reasons that people think polyester doesn't bond well. They do a marginal job of sanding, then slap a chunk of cloth (with no mat) down and pour a gallon of resin over it. Many times you don't really know where the repair is because there is so much resin running, dripping and pooling on the surface. This repair fails a short time later and it's blamed on the resin. Cloth used with polyester won't bond that well to even to a well sanded surface.

 

[brodie6]

Re: ready to glass

Saw your pics on Photo bucket. I admire your warm cozy workshop but was a little suprised that you had that you put that great looking woodburning stove so close to the wall. Not only that you have a cardboard filter leaned up against it.
Just an observation, don't mean to be a nitpicker. BTW great post on your boat too.